Is lowering numbers really less lazy than increasing numbers?

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Orbaal wrote:

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j33bus wrote:

Sure okay, but I'm talking about basic mapping encounters. Also of course if they don't want players to run around like an idiot they should stop making encounters that tell players to play that way, which they do constantly.

Hmmm what would change then?

When it comes to movespeed I dont feel slower at all. I ditched quicksilver flasks and instead Im leap slamming or whirling around just as fast as before.
Dmg changes are only noticable when Im fighting pretty tanky dudes. Other than that trash still just drops dead.

If you are referring to maps with insane mods, fully juiced up and then running into trouble, yeah ok I get that but thats not basic mapping or is it?

Slower encounters in general tone down pack size speed of monsters start telegraphing attacks. More monster hp less monster damage. Reign in damage spikes to create a more consistent experience. Right now encounters are a mess of visual diarrhea that makes really interacting with the encounter impossible and makes DPS just the best defensive stat. Until they make reacting to enemies a reasonable thing they game just can't be about anything but zooming.

If course their general content presentation is also about zooming, gotta go fast to collect enough of those ultra rare fragments from past content to do the fun stuff.

Also then in general if you don't want people will respond to the the way content is designed. Slap a timer on something and people are gonna know that the game is first and foremost about going fast, and there are timers hidden in basically everything and they all need to go. From the most egregious like delirium and legion to the most innocuous like zana missions none of them belong in their vision of a slower game because they all create dissonance between their desired gameplay and what the game is telling people about how it should be played.

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galuf wrote:

The game is definitely better than in 3.14 so no I don't think it is lazy design. However I don't really know GGG wants to achieve with this, PoE lost a big chunk of its playerbase last patch, a playerbase that it will never recuperate imho if the trends keep going this way.

Its just the trash from d3 having a temper tantrum after too much power-play into PoE attracted them,
Now PoE is going back to what it should be

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wi5pa1 wrote:

Now PoE is going back to what it should be

Good one! It won't and it never will go back to what it should be because GGG will never take the time to think about how the content they make effects how the game is played.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

nobody uses frostblink as a movement skill anyway, if it was designed for that it wouldn't do 1600-2400 cold with 280% effectiveness if positioned correctly.

However flame dash, leap slam, shield charge were also usable as boss skills I can't speak for whirling blades I think that ones a little bit too gimped.

Point is player power needed to be reduced, but not because someone actually went out of the box and played an unpopular but actually numerically fine skill. Chain hook is 10x worse as a skill use that as your example instead lmao

Its made that way to have easier time to chill/freeze mobs while jumping onto them. Thats the intended case. The fact that it allows for some degeneracy because of that doesnt invalidate that purpose. BTW he also made chain hook work with similar budget so....

Frost blink better highlights the problems this game suffers. Chain hook was made as dmg dealing gem, frost blink was not but because of tons of interraction and ways to bypass many things frostblink surpasses it. This better shows how out of hand power creep got. As i said, i have nothing against this being a possibility but not on such low budget.

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j33bus wrote:

Slower encounters in general tone down pack size speed of monsters start telegraphing attacks. More monster hp less monster damage. Reign in damage spikes to create a more consistent experience. Right now encounters are a mess of visual diarrhea that makes really interacting with the encounter impossible and makes DPS just the best defensive stat. Until they make reacting to enemies a reasonable thing they game just can't be about anything but zooming.

If course their general content presentation is also about zooming, gotta go fast to collect enough of those ultra rare fragments from past content to do the fun stuff.

Also then in general if you don't want people will respond to the the way content is designed. Slap a timer on something and people are gonna know that the game is first and foremost about going fast, and there are timers hidden in basically everything and they all need to go. From the most egregious like delirium and legion to the most innocuous like zana missions none of them belong in their vision of a slower game because they all create dissonance between their desired gameplay and what the game is telling people about how it should be played.

I kinda agree and disagree at the same time.

Visual clarity is straight up a mess in endgame and basically doesnt exist. Sure it depends on skill to a degree but yeah the clarity just isnt there.


With regards to the timer I disagree simply because speed will always be a massive multiplier whether timer exist or not. Ofc I do understand that players might feel forced into going fast because timer do exist, but even without timer the faster build will always beat the slower build in pretty much every single aspect.
There is nothing GGG can do about it.
Again: Timer dont help but it really doesnt matter all that much. If a build can clear at 200% movespeed and the next is clearing at 30% its obvious which one is going to win, even if everything else about both builds was the exact same.

It doesnt matter what mobs do or dont do, the result will always be the same.
Im not saying killing fast wasnt good - its supergood - but even if a slow tank could just stand in the middle of the thick, tank it all, slowly chip away at mobs and eventually win the encounter, it would still be a vastly inferior build compared to the speedy one. Its not even close.

I fully understand where you are coming from, I just disagree that removing timer or splinters etc would change anything. Slow builds would still suck, maybe a little less but lets be honest, most players want the highway towads power and not the bumpy cobblestone road - timer or no timer.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Disagree entirely with the diamond flask and most meta builds werent using diamond flasks, they were using a variety of either 4-5 unique flasks and generally 1 health potion.

TOH/Vinktars/Dying sun/Cinderswallow/Witchfire, etc.

Also Diamond flask is hardly "nerfed", if you throw on the new orb you can get 90% increased duration or 50% increased effect. If you go into any flask modifiers you can further increase this effect, or alternatively you can go into duration and make the flask last way longer than the original could.

Its 4.8 seconds with 20% quality on a normal flask, with a 40% duration roll on the flask goes up to 6.72 seconds. With the implicit off the enkindling orb for 90% increased duration you gain an additional 6.048 seconds. I think it rounds down but this equals 12.7 seconds of flask uptime. So regardless of the fact that crits no longer roll lucky, your flask is effectively up for double the amount of time.

TLDR - Flasks nerfs werent actually nerfs (some unique flasks aside), in many cases its about on par if not buffs if you use the new orbs, which just further added power creep.

If you weren't a crit build, you didn't use diamond flask, if you were you did. Its hard to compete with doubling your critical strike chance when that is what your build is scaling.

Experimenter's was reduced from 40% to 30% duration by the way.

Double the amount of time? maybe. With reduced base effect (Lucky -> 100% inc), cannot gain charges while active, and 75% reduced charge gain. How is that a buff?

Enkindling orbs get you a tiny bit of that power back, but at the cost of locking out charge gain and forgoing instilling orbs, aka, welcome back flask piano.

The only straight buff to flasks this patch was allowing Diamond flasks to roll Surgeon's, and reworking aquamarine to reduce freeze effect. Nearly everything else was nerfed.