Remove the Time Limits in Incursions

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Noble_Seiken wrote:

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Judaspriester wrote:

Removing the timelimit may be wrong, since you are intended to crush through under pressure. But still I agree with you that the timelimits for incursion, legion and similar stuff should be adjusted so that they fit better towards the average player damage/clearspeed.

Something like a few extra seconds for legion or a fraction of a second extra time per killed mob in incursion would most likely already work wonders without breaking with the initial design.

Maybe maybe not?

How about no.
Think about it. What if there just wasn't a timer AT ALL?

What would be lost?
What would be gained?

Having a deadline is a huge dick chopper.

I tried to offer a less invasive option to soften the problem. Lets take a look at it from a developer point of view. They have initially added the timer for a reason and they decided that their decision felt right, otherwise the timers would have already been removed. They want us to get into a situation of stress, where we have to decide quickly where to go, before it's to late. during these events they don't want us to snail trough and think about every step carefully. It's their part of risk & reward. Besides that, especially for incursion it fits into the ingame immersion, that Alva is only able to hold the time portal up for a few seconds, because it requires alot of effort.

Besides that, for incursion it may not be a that big difference, but imagine Legion without time limit. They would most likely nerf the rewards or mob amount, since it's simply not balanced around the average player unfreezing the whole armies.

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Judaspriester wrote:

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Noble_Seiken wrote:

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Judaspriester wrote:

Removing the timelimit may be wrong, since you are intended to crush through under pressure. But still I agree with you that the timelimits for incursion, legion and similar stuff should be adjusted so that they fit better towards the average player damage/clearspeed.

Something like a few extra seconds for legion or a fraction of a second extra time per killed mob in incursion would most likely already work wonders without breaking with the initial design.

Maybe maybe not?

How about no.
Think about it. What if there just wasn't a timer AT ALL?

What would be lost?
What would be gained?

Having a deadline is a huge dick chopper.

I tried to offer a less invasive option to soften the problem. Lets take a look at it from a developer point of view. They have initially added the timer for a reason and they decided that their decision felt right, otherwise the timers would have already been removed. They want us to get into a situation of stress, where we have to decide quickly where to go, before it's to late. during these events they don't want us to snail trough and think about every step carefully. It's their part of risk & reward. Besides that, especially for incursion it fits into the ingame immersion, that Alva is only able to hold the time portal up for a few seconds, because it requires alot of effort.

Besides that, for incursion it may not be a that big difference, but imagine Legion without time limit. They would most likely nerf the rewards or mob amount, since it's simply not balanced around the average player unfreezing the whole armies.

Fuck me.
I meant just timers for Incursion. It's the only one where the timer decides a complete Pass/Fail.

Please stop. Incursion timers are a very short period of time, the mobs don't give a lot of time per kill, and the entire thing feels like SHIT, and I have had fast builds. Just having the dread in the back of your mind is a huge mental tax, and I've always felt this way about games.

Use the atlas passives, finish with minutes remaining...

Now on a serious note - incursions definitely require attention.
Being either timer increased, or monster HP decreased.
Whichever version of tHe vIsIoN kicks in first.

Incursion mobs are one of the tankies in game, overall. Combined with timer and spiced by crippled player damage, it's indeed a bit too much.

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Chalace2 wrote:

Use the atlas passives, finish with minutes remaining...

I'm not using entire atlas points to do a mechanic that causes me dread just by its nature.
I'm going to do something else.

And for the record, Incursion content is somehow worse than Betrayal because both are too complicated to care about, but Inc makes me dedicate mental space to watching a fucking clock.
No.

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Noble_Seiken wrote:

Fuck me.
I meant just timers for Incursion. It's the only one where the timer decides a complete Pass/Fail.

Please stop. Incursion timers are a very short period of time, the mobs don't give a lot of time per kill, and the entire thing feels like SHIT, and I have had fast builds. Just having the dread in the back of your mind is a huge mental tax, and I've always felt this way about games.

I think you got me wrong here. I already agreed before that the current state is bad. The big question is just if GGG should "just" increase the timers or remove them at all. Here I think a reasonable(!) time increase in order to compensate for the nerfs would be enough, even if we could discuss what's "reasonable".
Here I think 2-3 sec initial time plus something like 20% more time per mob slain should be enough, but it's somewhat hard to call numbers here, without having the current ones ingame.

please do that.

Back in the day I used to say, timers don't belong to a game such as PoE. Although, what do I know, and I'm not even playing nowadays.

I guess they'll figure it out how a 'more tactical, slower gameplay' fits in with a bunch of timer leagues. And we are talking about DPS checks in a game with a range of 100 000 to 100 000 000 damage builds. There's your balance.

Only timer I actually liked was delve darkness. I felt it was a really clever implement, fitting in with the theme and gameplay alike. I still think Delve was a masterpiece of a league and they could've further worked on from it.

Also blight felt like a timer league to me, even if it technically wasn't. Other offenders in my books were Breach, Incursion and Legion. There may be others that I just can't think of right now. Sure, you can make player feel pressure with a timer but personally, it never felt right to include timers in an ARPG.

Overall, PoE gameplay pace only got worse over the time. There are too many gimmicks which stop player from killing and looting all the time. I never learnt to really like leagues such as Syndicate either, because it's key mechanics broke flow of the game more often than not. Besides, you don't really want to stop clicking decissions on-screen in a game where thousands of monsters are running at you FTL speed from every direction. If there at least was a pause, then maybe.

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Judaspriester wrote:

Here I think 2-3 sec initial time plus something like 20% more time per mob slain should be enough, but it's somewhat hard to call numbers here, without having the current ones ingame.

I dont think that is enough, given the fact that rares take more than 10 seconds to kill because bloated hp and that on a 6-link. If you go in with a 4-link which is something you can expect from someone just finishing the campaign and entering maps, then you are not getting anywhere with these incursion events.

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Reinhart wrote:

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Judaspriester wrote:

Here I think 2-3 sec initial time plus something like 20% more time per mob slain should be enough, but it's somewhat hard to call numbers here, without having the current ones ingame.

I dont think that is enough, given the fact that rares take more than 10 seconds to kill because bloated hp and that on a 6-link. If you go in with a 4-link which is something you can expect from someone just finishing the campaign and entering maps, then you are not getting anywhere with these incursion events.

That doesn't even cover how worse it gets with certain map mods. More HP? Physical/elemental resist? You'll either have to blow all of your scours/chaos rerolling or soldier through that nightmare.