Player Manifesto

Up (i don't know how to bump xd)
Spoiler
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ST4H wrote:
Let me start with possibly untrue statement.
Seasonal leagues were meant to be a fun twist of the standard league.
Having this in mind, seasonal leagues could be void. Why? I think that more than 90% of people who play seasonal leagues don't play standard seriously. Easiest example would be streamers: 1/2 months top of current league streams, next month other games. Time between leagues? Theory crafting/other games/vacation no standard in sight. In my opinion you are either a standard player, for set in stone content tested and perfected, or you are a seasonal league player, for 'it's practically a brand new game!' content.

I would love to know your opinion
I have spent some time on this post, and i hope that anyone who would want to leave a comment would do that after spending some time thinking about an answer :)
Spoiler
Crossing fingers for GGG response :D


Disclaimer:
I came up with following changes having seasonal leagues in mind, standard league could stay the same.

Acts:
Acts are fun for first created character only, doing it on every next character feels like a chore. I know that easing players in is important, letting them know new mechanics, reminding/teaching them why and what happened before they start mapping. But
Imagine doing 4 characters a league when Acts take you 5-10 hours, its like waiting in line to rollercoaster, in summer, no shade in sight, 40 degrees Celsius, your water bottle is empty, you are alone, you cant leave the line or you will lose your place, ambulance came because someone near entrance collapsed...

Every character after first one could start in Oriath or Karui Shores at lvl 68 with lvl ~10 gems selected from prompts - it's basically shared progression same as trials, crafting modifiers, atlas progression.
Not everyone can finish acts in 1 sitting (or even 2).
For people who like playing acts on every character you could give a prompt if they want to skip them or don't want.

Atlas:
Filling atlas is fun once (leave unchanged only in standard league?), doing it every league is a chore.
Not everyone can fill atlas in first month after which some end playing due to Grinding(GG) frustration, never experiencing league fully.
Remember that one time I went to a rollercoaster?

Atlas could be fully unlocked after acts, you still wouldn’t be able to play high tier maps anyway (probably).
More GGG way of doing it could be: only 4 first regions are unlocked then, after Sirus, next 4, then, after Sirus, next 4...
Chance league mechanics feel like they were meant for people who can play every day for countless hours (some don’t even know there was a Trial Master fight. Maven? Что?).
Mechanics like that could be condition based - finish 10/20/50/(how many you want) trials and you get map like item to boss fight arena.
Stupid? Maybe. More accessible? Definitely.

Gold:
Please, rethink introducing gold. Currency items you already have are it's equivalent anyway.
I know you didn’t want to implement gold as in Diablo it's meaningless. Your solution to this problem may worked in PoE 1.0 and beta but, right now, this current system went to extreme on the opposite side of spectrum.
There are so many kinds of currency items at this point, so many possible drops, its sickening.

At this moment pinnacle of mapping looks something like this: play map without paying much attention for 5 min, spend 20+ min looting, do it again.
The idea of gold as it is in Diablo is fundamentally wrong, but can be improved. Imagine having 1 currency drop that gives you many possibilities instead of many currency items that each have only one.
Current currency drop rates are calculated for normal player (someone who plays, 1-2 hours a day) throughout 3 months but player base drops significantly after 1 month (around 50%, sometimes more, sometimes less), which leaves this 'normal' players, if they still want to play, playing ghost league.

CONTROVERSY INTENSIFIES:
Spoiler
Maybe pet could pick it up? XD

Gold would be untradable but you could pay with it at merchants.
You could introduce new NPC and/or free or paid stash tab for currency exchange.

Example exchange table:
        Buying currency:
        100 - Scrolls
        .
        .
        .
        10,000 - Chaos Orb
        .
        .
        .
        1,000,000 - Exalted Orb
        .
        .
        .
        1,000,000,000 - Mirror of Kalandra

        Selling currency (for example for 50% it's gold value):
        Scrolls - 50
        .
        .
        .
        Chaos Orb - 5,000
        .
        .
        .
        Exalted Orb - 500,000
        .
        .
        .
        Mirror of Kalandra - 500,000,000

Gold should be easy to implement, just count how much currency usual player got before and check how much it would be in gold based on exchange table.

Example
Each fully finished act could give ~1000 gold * act number throughout act playthrough:
        1’st act ~1,000 gold in total
        5’th act ~5,000 gold in total
Finishing all acts would accumulate ~55,000 gold in total + maybe some gold bonuses from missions so you get around 100,000 = 10c, which should get you prepared for low tier maps.
Low tier maps would give ~10,000 gold (1c worth), mid tier ~100k (10c) and high tier, or at least t16 maps, would give ~1 mil (1 ex).

With this calculations Mirror could be obtained in ~11 days (8 hours per day) which is huge investment of time (just calculate this time * avrg per hour salary in your country).
For "normal" player (2h per day playtime) this would be around 41 days.

Proposed system could give more flexibility for item crafting - you've got 1 mil gold from red/t16 map and now you can decide on what you want to spend it.
You need 10k portal scrolls? Go for it.
You need (some amount) Orbs of Fusing? There you go.
This could increase good items count on market at the same time decreasing their price, ergo more fun for little people.

Small change:
Support gems there are incompatible either with spell gem or item spell can't be put on (ex. Archmage doesn’t work with Manabond).
Does any build need support gem that doesn’t work?

Source:
https://steamcharts.com/app/238960#All + my experience.
Kinda source but mostly interesting https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/8fu2sd/what_percent_of_players_in_bestiary_league_did/


The chance they see your thread or your idea is very high cause this is public area but the chance they get your idea and bring it to the dicuss room is another story. But i'll give it a try anyway

I'm a league only player for 6 years since Perandus league. I play mostly for challenges in new league and always forbid chars after leagues in standard because I dont feel like I love doing things again & again many times even that was the best time ever. I love something new, fresh and maybe challenging which temp leagues offering.

I dont wanna talk too much about currency or the economy cause there always 1 or more than 2 ways/methods to farm currencies in the game. The thing is: "Do you have TIME to farm amount of currencies that you want ?"

Here are my opinions about the current state of the game or even in the near future:

+ Slow paced gameplay: I like the idea. A little bit of thinking before engaging with monsters is a good thing to keep in mind. But the way they introduce it with this leauge is not a good way. Player's power is reduced but monsters? Not yet. This leading into some akward situation where I feel weak/ pain in the ass before even getting any further.

+Monster density: like I said above the power of monster still remaining and somehow got buffed this leauge thanks to the nerf. This is unbalanced imo and need to be rework/changing somehow to fit the slower-paced gameplay. For example: lower the density but raise the difficulty of them, you have to fight 2-3 powerfull rhoa/goatmen instead of to be annoyed by 5-10 of them.

+ Rewards : they said more rewards give player faster process causing them leave the leauge sooner but I think its the opposite. You have to find the real answer for "Why they leave?" - To me the answer is I have enough fun, I killed all the content the league has offered like sirus 9/maven/U-elder/U-atziri/Trial master in last league, I even leveled my character to lv 100, unlocked celestial hideout the first time ever. So there nothing left for me to exploring/testing.
Its about the amount/quality of new content that lure me in to enjoy it. But what if I dont like it? I drop the leauge in the frist place not even bother to grinding for reward. So its not about the amount of reward at all.

+ Drop rate/trash items on the ground: this continuing to be the big problem for me after all these years. Instead of giving me the feeling of :" Wow! Something drop on the ground, I must pick it". You made me feels like : "Another bunch of bs drop on the ground. I better get a new filter". There always gold in the dirt and you have to dig in to find it, but it seems to not fit in the current state of the game.
RNG make the game unique/good in its own but on the other hand make me feel hopeless sometimes. For example I encounter sirus 9 - one of the most endgame bosses about 10 times last leauge but turn out 9/10 times I got only some useless stuffs not even worth the time I invested/prepared to fight him and guess what?-I can simply sell the fight to others to get better income rather than fighting him myself.

Last edited by levinh07#2454 on Jul 31, 2021, 9:36:49 AM
First of all, what a great answer!

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levinh07 wrote:

+Monster density: like I said above the power of monster still remaining and somehow got buffed this leauge thanks to the nerf. This is unbalanced imo and need to be rework/changing somehow to fit the slower-paced gameplay. For example: lower the density but raise the difficulty of them, you have to fight 2-3 powerfull rhoa/goatmen instead of to be annoyed by 5-10 of them.


I second that, monsters early could definitely be stronger but in smaller packs.
"
levinh07 wrote:

+ Drop rate/trash items on the ground: this continuing to be the big problem for me after all these years. Instead of giving me the feeling of :" Wow! Something drop on the ground, I must pick it". You made me feels like : "Another bunch of bs drop on the ground. I better get a new filter". There always gold in the dirt and you have to dig in to find it, but it seems to not fit in the current state of the game.
RNG make the game unique/good in its own but on the other hand make me feel hopeless sometimes. For example I encounter sirus 9 - one of the most endgame bosses about 10 times last leauge but turn out 9/10 times I got only some useless stuffs not even worth the time I invested/prepared to fight him and guess what?-I can simply sell the fight to others to get better income rather than fighting him myself.


Exactly, chance mechanics make even huge time investment a 50/50 (or 10/90 as you stated :D)
Hello, guess we think the same about gold.
Last edited by HoockBr#6817 on Aug 1, 2021, 1:02:02 PM
The Xtorma Manifesto

Make the game fun for me, Screw anyone else.
"
Xtorma wrote:
The Xtorma Manifesto

Make the game fun for me, Screw anyone else.


Could you write why you disagree? Do you disagree with everything, even proposed small changes? Did you even read my post? xd
"
ST4H wrote:
"
Snorkle_uk wrote:
if you void leagues you break down a foundational element of the games economy. every time you grind a map what drops lasts forever, even if you dont care about its future beyond X point others do, EVERYTHING that drops is forever, it has value based on forever


How close do you think people keep their dear 10k of portal scrolls? :D
But i get you, for some feeling of achievement, and having something to remind you of it might be important.



its got nothing to do with a feeling of achievement or reminding you of things.

you exist in a trade environment while in a league, people in that trade environment caring about standard means they are willing to trade with you based on the value the items they receive will have on standard.

it doesnt matter if thats 10% of people or 5% or even 1%. what % of players are looking to buy a headhunter or a mirror? a very small % of people are actually looking to buy those things but because they exist and the items are so rare ANYONE who finds a HH or a mirror in a trade environment is excited because the 1% of people on the server looking to buy that item will pay a fortune for it.






things having value in standard is like a floor that maintains a minimum value for items across the board in any non void environment. once u take that away everything in the game can become completely worthless. in a vid ziggy mirrored a 3 link RGB item and vendored it for a chromatic orb. why? because it was a void/ptr/beta type environment and hence nothing had any real value, a viewer gave him the mirror to do it as a joke because why not? its a mirror and it has ZERO value beyond turning it into a chrom for lols.

a trade arpg is completely dependent on the devs finding a way to make the items valuable to people. its fundamental to the game, the entire reason 99.9% of people play is because the items they find feel valuable to them.
I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
"
Snorkle_uk wrote:

it doesnt matter if thats 10% of people or 5% or even 1%. what % of players are looking to buy a headhunter or a mirror? a very small % of people are actually looking to buy those things but because they exist and the items are so rare ANYONE who finds a HH or a mirror in a trade environment is excited because the 1% of people on the server looking to buy that item will pay a fortune for it.


Hmm, someone found mirror before HH? Is it easier to farm HH in seasonal league during 3 months or during any time you want in standard?
"
Snorkle_uk wrote:
things having value in standard is like a floor that maintains a minimum value for items across the board in any non void environment. once u take that away everything in the game can become completely worthless. in a vid ziggy mirrored a 3 link RGB item and vendored it for a chromatic orb. why? because it was a void/ptr/beta type environment and hence nothing had any real value, a viewer gave him the mirror to do it as a joke because why not? its a mirror and it has ZERO value beyond turning it into a chrom for lols.


I see that every time at the end of league. People trade all for nothing because they treat seasonal leagues as void anyway

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