Expedition's damage immunity should be removed!!!

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FutureFear wrote:

I'm afraid they might use immunities more in the future, that's why I'm raising my voice that it shouldn't be in the game; even in its current form...

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raics wrote:

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FutureFear wrote:

I'm afraid they might use immunities more in the future, that's why I'm raising my voice that it shouldn't be in the game; even in its current form...

Too late, losing something was a part of the design from the very start, I mean, if your build can't do a certain map mod, the map is effectively immune to you. You can also brick an item, a soul eater rare can become unkillable if it eats too much and has nasty mods, you could fail certain master missions very easily with some builds, hell, in the last league you could pick ultimatum mods that were effectively impossible in certain situations. So, it isn't just immunities, we could refer to it all as 'cockblock mechanics' and they're a part of the game at this point.

Personally, as long as you can choose whether to engage with them or not, I think it's fine. And if you sometimes do it by mistake, well, you say shit happens and move on, things can't always go according to plan, and maybe they shouldn't.

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FutureFear wrote:

If a map has modifiers I can't run, I can reroll the mods, with currency.
If a map has mods I can't run, I can build towards a build that can deal with them aka reflect immunities/reductions, reduced effect of curses etc.

Those modifiers on maps can all be bypassed, while an immunity can't. Immune is immune it becomes unkillable for that type of damage no matter what you do.

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FutureFear wrote:

If a map has modifiers I can't run, I can reroll the mods, with currency.
If a map has mods I can't run, I can build towards a build that can deal with them aka reflect immunities/reductions, reduced effect of curses etc.

Those modifiers on maps can all be bypassed, while an immunity can't. Immune is immune it becomes unkillable for that type of damage no matter what you do.

Bricking an item can happen on most ARPGs and is a vital part of item balancing in such games. If it wouldn't exist, we would all run around with perfectly rolled gear... and be gods, yet immune enemies remain unkillable.

The soul eater issue sounds more like a bug to me, maybe it needs a limit...

I didn't like ultimatum, and I'm happy it didn't go core; they admitted it wasn't optimal to go core, because of the strong modifiers and quite a lot of monsters in a narrow space. It wasn't the tactical mechanic as they hoped it would be, and too rewarding for some... and not at all for others.

Also, Heist isn't a good example, because I understand If you die when you get "caught" you don't keep the loot... it would beat the entire concept of "a heist."

Failing master missions is more of a build issue that can be solved by reworking your build...
While a damage immunity can't be reworked... it stays an immunity.


The things you named provide us with challenges while immunity isn't a challenge it's immune, nothing challenging about immunities because nothing can be done against it. It actually blocks content, compared to the things you named.
I can't invest in more damage or better defenses to overcome immunities, it's downright impossible to kill them with that type of damage.
Knowing that Path Exile only has a few (viable) builds that actually use more than one damage type and don't scale well for end-game content should tell us (and them) enough that immunities don't belong in Path of Exile (in the current state of the game).

Scaling damage for multiple damage types in path exile doesn't work with how the current damage scaling works. To achieve a reasonable amount of damage and maintain defenses aiming for 1 damage type is still the best option.
Most of the build guides you find will prove that.

Fun fact, thanks to GGG's nerfs, my current build can actually run all map mods, even physical reflect because DOT (bleeding) doesn't reflect and they nerfed the "hit damage" on most DOT gems. My hits are so low now I can actually out heal them with "life on kill and/or hit" ;)

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DurianMcgregor wrote:

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FutureFear wrote:

If a map has modifiers I can't run, I can reroll the mods, with currency.
If a map has mods I can't run, I can build towards a build that can deal with them aka reflect immunities/reductions, reduced effect of curses etc.

Those modifiers on maps can all be bypassed, while an immunity can't. Immune is immune it becomes unkillable for that type of damage no matter what you do.

Are you really going to change gear and/or passive points if you vaal and brick a map for your build? I wouldn't.

Personally I think it's great that you can accidentally make monsters immune to your build if you don't pay attention.

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raics wrote:

Sure, some of the things aren't the same, but you can see that they want the 'I just screwed myself' moments to exist. Hell, the izaro fights are pretty much designed to kick you in the nuts if you mess up the previous ones, sure, might not be a problem for strong characters either way, but that's what the blueprint says, the mindset is there.

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FutureFear wrote:

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raics wrote:

Sure, some of the things aren't the same, but you can see that they want the 'I just screwed myself' moments to exist. Hell, the izaro fights are pretty much designed to kick you in the nuts if you mess up the previous ones, sure, might not be a problem for strong characters either way, but that's what the blueprint says, the mindset is there.

Izaro isn't unkillable, and it's more a dodge his attack fight... yet again though a good example where the game isn't slowed down...

I understand punishment if you aren't ready to face a challenge yet, if your gear isn't optimal, you're low level and don't have the skill points etc. Perfectly acceptable.

An immunity doesn't allow that, whether I'm level 1 or level 100 it doesn't make a difference, you can't get past an immunity; Those monsters stay immune.
No matter what game mechanic you put against it nothing can compare to the immunity, nothing can be done against it either, and that creates the issue it can (potentially) block content, progress, and overall gameplay.

It is a cheap "solution" to make a game harder and just shouldn't be there, why is that so hard to understand?

Even in its current form it still creates the issue that you can't kill the monster in front of you, you can't benefit from its drops/rewards, or even get past them to complete the content that you were playing.

Any other mechanics in POE are fine, they can be countered, they have their workaround. EVEN after they turn out to be mistakes... you made.

If GGG will keep going with these kinds of mechanics the game is doomed to die, even now the numbers aren't as high as before and declining.

For now we only see immunities on nodes from expedition, but what is stopping GGG to add them to maps, delve, contracts, blueprints, beasts, ... as monster modifiers?

This is what concerns me deeply that if they go down this path, bigger issues will arise. Hence why I raise my voice to prevent it from happing and hoping GGG comes with more creative solutions than just slapping immunities on everything to make the game harder and or slower... it's cheap and has a big lack of creativity...
Especially towards Path of Exile 2, it might be wise to make GGG aware of their mistakes. :)

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FutureFear wrote:

I understand punishment if you aren't ready to face a challenge yet, if your gear isn't optimal, you're low level and don't have the skill points etc. Perfectly acceptable.

An immunity doesn't allow that, whether I'm level 1 or level 100 it doesn't make a difference, you can't get past an immunity; Those monsters stay immune.
No matter what game mechanic you put against it nothing can compare to the immunity, nothing can be done against it either, and that creates the issue it can (potentially) block content, progress, and overall gameplay.

It is a cheap "solution" to make a game harder and just shouldn't be there, why is that so hard to understand?

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raics wrote:

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FutureFear wrote:

I understand punishment if you aren't ready to face a challenge yet, if your gear isn't optimal, you're low level and don't have the skill points etc. Perfectly acceptable.

An immunity doesn't allow that, whether I'm level 1 or level 100 it doesn't make a difference, you can't get past an immunity; Those monsters stay immune.
No matter what game mechanic you put against it nothing can compare to the immunity, nothing can be done against it either, and that creates the issue it can (potentially) block content, progress, and overall gameplay.

It is a cheap "solution" to make a game harder and just shouldn't be there, why is that so hard to understand?

It isn't supposed to make the game harder, just like the blocker mods on maps aren't there so you'd run the map at snail's pace, nobody does that. They're a cash sink, they force you to either spend currency on rerolling the map, or invest in your character to ignore the mod, if possible.

A you said yourself, you can't do anything about immunities, it doesn't make the encounter harder, it's a full cockblock. It's there just to make you pay attention to what you're doing and interact with the league mechanics properly even if your build is a total wrecking ball, and I can support that.

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raics wrote:

Just imagine, you picked an immunity (for your build) as the last node (by accident), and the last monster you could kill dropped a headhunter... right in that pack of unkillable monsters... Yet you can't pick it up because you die before you can reach it...