Resistance needs to be converted to resistance rating

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notevenhere wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

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gh0un wrote:

They give you statistics depending on the enemy mobs level, not depending on your own level.
Go read the FAQ for any of the games that use rating (including path of exile), or search the forums.

They give you the statistics generally using your level as a reference point. But I always understood the %values to be static against all enemies regardless of their level.

Of course this is shown in WoW by the fact that bosses have different miss than normal mobs and require the same rating value to raise a single %. Unless they use an exponential miss rate by level the only way for that to work is for 1% rating to equal 1% rating regardless of enemy level.

This is the entire problem with rating systems. You are guessing what your stats do compared to other monsters. That's my entire point: It's too confusing.

If I have X% fire resistance, I always know that it is X%. I don't have to wonder how that really is versus something a higher or lower level.

See how easy it is to understand? I have flat out X% regardless of what I'm fighting.

And that system is a horrendous BITCH to balance.

Which is why the bandaid fix in D2 EXISTS and why EVERY GAME SINCE THEN which has had a semblance of balance used rating systems EXACTLY like armor for their other damage types.

Hi I'm playing D2. When I get a better armor orating on my boots in a drop I don;t wear it becuase I have coveted quadruple 40% elemental resist boots and no amount of armor will be worth getting destroyed by casters which were balanced ASSUMING I HAVE 75% RESISTS

So instead the MELEE destroys me with my crap armor rating.

Nothere, is it really that hard to understand that you would still be shown a percentage value in the char screen, even if using a rating system.

You keep bringing up the argument as if it werent displayed as a percentage value, which is just utter bull.

Armor is a rating, and it also displays a percentage value despite of it being a rating.
If you bring that argument up once more ill ask a moderator to remove you from this thread, because the shit you are bringing up is just that. Utter bullcrap.

Honestly I think the OP is an idea worth looking into.

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gh0un wrote:

Nothere, is it really that hard to understand that you would still be shown a percentage value in the char screen, even if using a rating system.

You keep bringing up the argument as if it werent displayed as a percentage value, which is just utter bull.

Armor is a rating, and it also displays a percentage value despite of it being a rating.
If you bring that argument up once more ill ask a moderator to remove you from this thread, because the shit you are bringing up is just that. Utter bullcrap.

The percentage you are shown though is not static. It changes depending on your level. It has to. That's what is wrong with it. If I level up, it gets worse. You can say it's not based on my level, that it's in relation to the monster I'm fighting, but THAT isn't shown on your character screen.

Technically you can argue that it is, because it's now comparing you to a level 6 monster since you are level 6, instead of a level 5 monster.

But that's not really true. Your system lies to me when I look at my character sheet, because if I'm level 5 fighting level 6 monsters, the % damage reduction it shows me is based on a level 5 monster, and not a level 6 monster.

Or you do what Blizzard did in WoW, and you show me a whole list of percentages, for if I'm fighting a level 5 monster and a level 6 monster and a level 7 monster and a "boss" level 8 monster.

That's convoluted.

If I find a ring of 5% fire reduction, it applies to all levels of monsters I'm fighting.

It's clear to anyone that reads it that regardless of whatever level I run across, that it is a true 5%.

It's not bullshit. It's clear and explicit.

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Autocthon wrote:

And that system is a horrendous BITCH to balance.

Which is why the bandaid fix in D2 EXISTS and why EVERY GAME SINCE THEN which has had a semblance of balance used rating systems EXACTLY like armor for their other damage types.

Hi I'm playing D2. When I get a better armor orating on my boots in a drop I don;t wear it becuase I have coveted quadruple 40% elemental resist boots and no amount of armor will be worth getting destroyed by casters which were balanced ASSUMING I HAVE 75% RESISTS

So instead the MELEE destroys me with my crap armor rating.

No it's not a bitch to balance. If everything is a flat percentage, that doesn't make it inherently hard to balance. You haven't proven anything that has shown how it's magically hard to balance because you've decided to show flat percentages.

There's nothing that says armor has to be a non-percentage number either. String of Ears anyone?

this thread needs a bump in order to get others' opinion as well, maybe devs' also ?

To sum this up:

Notevenhere:

You are right in that a flat % is VERY EXPLICIT and VERY EASY TO UNDERSTAND at face value.

HOWEVER, you REALLY should go back two pages to one of gh0uns longer posts because he did an excellent job of explaining step by step why % is retardedly hard to balance early game and late game at the same time.

[His example of the 5% cold resist on Merveil not being meaningful to a 150HP pool vs. 5 Cold Rating translating to ~35% resist at level ~15 allowing Cold Resist to actually mean something. That post.]

If they switched to a Resistance Rating system, they could balance the entire game much easier for elemental monsters.



If you need a mental way to quantify "why" gear would "become less strong as you level"... Just think of it as having XX amoung of cold resist worked for weaker level monsters, but it is no longer AS USEFUL for higher level monsters that have stronger attacks.

Every value in the character sheet is already lying to you. Hell the elemental resistance values are probably lying to you too already anyway.

Just an FYI

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notevenhere wrote:

I'm going to say no. I don't want to have to stop and calculate how much 1235444 fire resistance means in percentage. If I look at my character sheet and it says 30% fire resistance, I know that's 30%. I can look at a piece of gear and see that it's 5% lightning resist.

That's easy to understand. I don't want to find gear that says "123 resist rating", because that means NOTHING to me.

Keep it simple.

It's hilarious to watch people who have no understanding of EHP try to talk about how simple percentage damage reduction is, then make decisions which lower their survivability because they don't realize percentage damage reduction has increasing returns.

But anyway, I wholeheartedly support this suggestion. Elemental resistances are incredibly easy to max out, and the increasing returns makes them extremely unintuitive, especially for the vast majority of players who don't even realize they don't understand them. I would strongly support a resistance rating system where each point of rating is worth the same amount, just as each point of HP is worth the same amount. League of Legends is a good example of this. In League of Legends, their magic resist stat has linear returns; x resistance corresponds to +x% EHP.

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notevenhere wrote:

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gh0un wrote:

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Having rating points decay as you get higher levels makes no sense at all to a player. Why if I am more powerful (which is what gaining a level implies), do I suddenly have less of a chance to crit?

Thats not the implication of a rating system.
The implication of a rating system is: if your opponents level increases, you need more of a stat to have the same effect on those monsters.

That IS the implication of a rating system if you look at how WoW's rating system works. That's exactly what happens. As you gain levels, your gear gets worse for you. You get less out of the same amount of crit (or any stat that uses a rating system) then you just did five minutes ago when you were a lower level.

Now maybe you meant YOUR rating system wouldn't do that, but that's exacly what WOW's rating system does.

Get your facts straight before you start throwing out criticisms. In WoW your stats did not go down as you leveled up. If you level up, you will still have the same or greater effectiveness against any given enemy. It only seems like you're weaker because the character screen compares you to an enemy your level, just like gh0un said.

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Get your facts straight before you start throwing out criticisms. In WoW your stats did not go down as you leveled up. If you level up, you will still have the same or greater effectiveness against any given enemy. It only seems like you're weaker because the character screen compares you to an enemy your level, just like gh0un said.

This is absolutely FALSE.

At 80th level I had X% chance to hit 80th level monsters. I was hit capped. When I hit 81st level, I suddenly started missing on those same level 80 monsters.

Get your facts straight before you start throwing out criticisms.