Re: Levelling skill gems by use

Hey,

Preface this feedback by saying I just started playing the last couple days and I really do enjoy it.

My concern with the passive vs active (gem) skills, is the fact that you can fill your slots with a bunch of skill gems you don't use and don't ever plan to use - and still level them. Seems like it trivializes the need to level them if they become so abundantly available to trade.

Why don't gems level up based on use? If you are a dual wield melee and have a couple caster gems equipped that you don't use, why do they gain XP?

Doesn't it make more sense to have skill gems level on a completely use based system? If this has been discussed (I couldn't find it) ignore me!

Perhaps after a certain level (can't say what level would be appropriate) - to keep getting XP on a skill gem you have to bind it to THAT specific character.

Maybe someone with a lot of time in the game can explain the mechanics of why you get passive XP on gems you don't use and how that is designed for the longer term.

c

The problem with not having them level without spamming them is that once you started along with one skill, it would be hard to ever try something else, because it wouldn't ever level up.

You'd also have to have different criteria for each skill as to what gave it experience. Auras would level up super fast, because they'd always be on - either that or they'd never level up because you cast them only once per zone. Either that or you'd stand there doing nothing but turning the aura on and off over and over to level it.

None of that is really fun.

Skills like Fireball you would have to decide if it was hitting a monster, or just simply spamming it, or getting kills that gave you experience.

Then what about support gems? Would they only level up if the skill they were tied to got experience through however it levels?

It would be a lot more work, with little to no reward or fun attached.

"

notevenhere wrote:

Skills like Fireball you would have to decide if it was hitting a monster, or just simply spamming it

I'd say support gems should level up only if they are actively supporting a gem. Not just slotted?

Aura's would have to be based on a % of xp per what the mob gave you?

Perhaps you are right about the grind factor. Just seems when you trivialize the leveling of gems plus the fact that they are not bound and can be traded - it starts to negate the point of even having to level them up versus scaling them with your character?

Levelling skills you don't use is fine - you may use them later. Lower-level skills are also more useful to more people - only high-level characters can use a high-level skill but anyone can use the lower level ones.

The stuff you're suggesting may make more sense, but it'd ultimately be inconvenient. Active skills really aren't intrinsically linked to a character and it's more convenient that way.

Why have leveling gems at all then if the leveling part is trivial.

I don't know. It reminds me of say Everquest or Everquest 2, or any of the recent MMORPGS where your skill maxes increase with level. So every level you have to bring 1 handed slashing 5 points to max it again. Really seemed pointless (and even grinding a new skill to max was easy).

The general mechanic seems to ruin some potential of the gem leveling idea.

With so many different build possibilities and the semi-locked in nature of your character at a certain point (unless you have tons of respec at higher levels??), doesn't make sense to me to have gems so generically level able.

It's an easy way to make the skills stronger at higher levels, I guess.

"

notevenhere wrote:

It would be a lot more work, with little to no reward or fun attached.

I disagree here... I think the replay value and the thought that goes into HOW you play the game is massively increased with leveling gems by use.

It should at least be an "option" to turn this on...

Take Elder Scrolls = leveling by use is a major part of the game and it works to enhance specific styles of play and increases depth of character development - not to mention massive re-playability.

I played POE at first actually _thinking_ that gems were leveled by use... it made me play with a wide variety of tactics to try and level gems I wanted to advance.

This was actually really fun... when I tested things and found they leveled automatically, I was quite disappointed and gameplay went back to basic hack / cast / twang with at least 1/2 the thought / tactical / character development depth of the game lost... :(

Granted there is some work involved in figuring out how to level certain types of gems - most could be damage based (e.g. exp = damage caused x (monster level - gem level), and others could level like before if in the "too hard" basket (auras if turned on etc)

As an option I am sure this would increase re-playability, tactics depth and character development thought quite a bit...

Try it = play the game as if you had to level your gems by use... and you will see how differently you will play the game. Some will like it - other will not... at least having the choice would take this game to the next level...

Other than this 1 point (which I did search to see if it would be added as it really let me down when I found out gems were auto leveled) - the rest of the game is top notch so far...

"

notevenhere wrote:

The problem with not having them level without spamming them is that once you started along with one skill, it would be hard to ever try something else, because it wouldn't ever level up.

You'd also have to have different criteria for each skill as to what gave it experience. Auras would level up super fast, because they'd always be on - either that or they'd never level up because you cast them only once per zone. Either that or you'd stand there doing nothing but turning the aura on and off over and over to level it.

None of that is really fun.

Skills like Fireball you would have to decide if it was hitting a monster, or just simply spamming it, or getting kills that gave you experience.

Then what about support gems? Would they only level up if the skill they were tied to got experience through however it levels?

It would be a lot more work, with little to no reward or fun attached.

These are reasons why I support the current system.

I agree with necron99, I was playing the game very tactical through thinking gem skills were leveling through use, I was acturally enjoying the Deversity of doing so, I would be glad if they change Direct attacks to level via use, and have a different system with aura's leveling like its currently now or sapping a portion of the exp that the Current Skill on use is gaining in experience, as for support gems, they can level up while leeching some of the experience of the skill its modifing, leading to a split of exp Devided by 3+ including aura's. This as a whole just remins me of how Deverse Diablo 2 became after collecting some really weird items, or/and Charms/jewels to Hybrid a Character Design which in return gave hugh acomplishment and reward.

On a close look, the gem levelling isnt that trivial at all:

-you have to have access to the gems first (not that simple for the higher ones and non-rewards), and to have enough of the right sockets to equip them

-you have to fulfil the increasing gem requirements, at the 'levelling' char and the same way on a char you (or anybody else) will use it (uplevelled) later

-levelling the gems (especially the higher ones and at higher level) need a lot of grind to get the needed experience - and there's no abuse by doing this in low areas, since its based on your own exp reward

-you already are limited in your options to change your setup (by respec), It would be horrible to have no chance to switch (example) from fireball to freezing pulse (or from a sword skill to a mace one) at a level where the level 1 gem would be useless

I know a ARPG where the skills are implemented in a way you suggest (levelling by use); I cant say it was that much wrong, but I cant see this fitting well in the world of wraeclast (technical and gameplaywise) - and I imagine there would always be ways to abuse it.

And, beside all this, the afraided gem trade is explicit desired by the devs.