Streamer priority confirmed. PoE is free to play, so play it for free, but Boycott GGG.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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QuiquePoE wrote:

I honestly think, at this point, it doesn't really matter how shocking GGG's behavior is.

Short of them stopping releasing leagues, I belive they can get away with pretty much anything. Not even sure that competiton (leagues behind in development), could sway people away. And that is mostly because the players, the junkies that we are, will remain firmly attached to the game's tits for as long as the hook is provided and choose to justify, minimize, relativize their misconducts.

...and maybe also because their behaviour is some of the least shocking, least immoral behaviour of any game dev team, or even just general business of their revenue size you could probably point to off the cuff.


the fact that this entire thing is an absurd over exaggeration beyond all reason and sense, that ggg are not actually bad people, theyre not a bad company and they havent actually done anything really terrible/unforgiveable does go some way to explaining why most people are just gonna carry on as if ggg are good people working for a good comapny that hasnt done anything terrible or unforgivable.

because, you know, thats actually the reality of the people and the company despite what demented, delusional bullshit has been brewed up in this thread to feed peoples degenerate addiction to outrage.

I'm not accusing GGG of anything (not here, anyway). I'm just saying that I belive players to be so addicted with the game that no matter how shocked, outraged, disappointed, etc. they are, they'll go back right to it. And that puts GGG in a very comfortable position.

At least, that's what I assume is happening after witnessing the barrage of complaints and discontent expressed in tons of threads in these forums and on Reddit regarding the latest changes and the streamer privilege, in contrast with the pretty good concurrent count numbers shown in the Steam charts.

Maybe my reasoning is flawed but, If I'm pissed off with something, I cut the ties. Unless I can't.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

...and maybe also because their behaviour is some of the least shocking, least immoral behaviour of any game dev team, or even just general business of their revenue size you could probably point to off the cuff.


the fact that this entire thing is an absurd over exaggeration beyond all reason and sense, that ggg are not actually bad people, theyre not a bad company and they havent actually done anything really terrible/unforgiveable does go some way to explaining why most people are just gonna carry on as if ggg are good people working for a good comapny that hasnt done anything terrible or unforgivable.

because, you know, thats actually the reality of the people and the company despite what demented, delusional bullshit has been brewed up in this thread to feed peoples degenerate addiction to outrage.

In terms of this being an outrage addicts only club I have to assure you that that's not true. I've been first in line at criticising that camp both here and irl. I could prove my bona fides in that regard but that post would be instantly deleted so use your imagination.

Saying other players in the industry are worse is irrelevant to me. I don't play EA games. I shittalk Ubisoft every chance I get (Uplay is garbage and they make broken games and don't refund them). GGG both acted and were in fact ethical for a long time. Until they weren't. That hits different than the companies you expect to be scumbags doing their status quo.

Been several years since I've seriously read a thread in GD, let alone posted something long. And, it's really so crazy to watch how the general perception of the game has changed over time. From 'I want to donate more' to 'I will never spend another dime and you shouldn't either'.

Seeing that front-page reddit post about Somayd leaving and these types of threads really hits hard about how different times are.

It's kind of saddening in a way, because I fundamentally believe that GGG is doing their best. However, even I find it hard to defend them on some fronts. Their radio silence on certain issues is something that never would have happened in the past. It's somewhat baffling even to me.

At the same time, I get that they are larger company under more scrutiny. So, they've needed to become a lot more political and formal, because players are holding them accountable for every single bit of information anybody says.

But, I do miss the more informal conversations that could be had about different topics. That 'small indie company' vibe is definitely a treasure of mine. And, all of my few, small, limited interactions with GGG were great.

Just kind of thinking out loud.

edit: Jesus, I_NO with the 33k posts. My dude never stopped posting one single day that I left, lol. Tiny claps for that kind of persistence.

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Rascalson wrote:

Code audit several times a year and during/after any race with cash prizes. Easy peasy and surely less expensive than the pile of cash they "allegedly" would have burned through if they didn't let certain streamers, the streamers neighbor, the janitor at the streamer's second cousins boyfriends workplace... ahead in the queue. Which BTW is highly likely to have been coded ability already in place. They have the ability to have many environments up with different levels and features of code. Why would something like that be anywhere near a production game server environment? They won't though, count on it.

I wasn't surprised that they had the ability to manipulate server access already in place -- it'd be sort of foolish to have a very popular attraction prone to regular breakdowns and not keep a back door for staff to go in and see what's what. Or, even if they didn't use that, simply have it there 'just in case'.

Which, to me, only compounds the issue: they likely had a feature in place for maintenance reasons and used it for financially-motivated abuse. Pretty much on par with backstage passes to a privileged few to a massively popular concert that claims to be free and fair for all -- but in fact has an earlier session and is also, y'know, streaming that session. And somehow the people running this concert not only didn't see this as fucked up, but as a 'gift' to the multitude of saps standing in line watching this special 'privileged' concert on their phones.

Do you guys not have phones twitch?

Funny you'd bring the word 'audit' up. I could almost hear the collective GaaS industry screaming from here. At which point does this predatory model demand external monitoring for fairness and ethical operation? How much money has to change hands before a third-party watchdog becomes necessary? I honestly never thought I'd even think that, not as someone who traditionally believes in self-responsibility and accountability. That exposure to a company built on ethical behaviour would eventually sway my thinking and convince me that there is absolutely abuse in taking advantage of people's lack of self-control and susceptibility to addictive stimulus and not, say, decades of being raised in a nanny state where a talking Giraffe called Harold told us how bad drugs are, is incredibly telling. On the other hand, I fucking hate hypocrisy so maybe that's it. Fool me, though, for thinking a free to play game designed 'to be played forever' could be anything even close to ethical. All GGG did was conceal the hook a little deeper in the sweet, sweet flesh of the free taste.

Ironically it never worked on me -- I'm too dumb to be seduced by PoE's main hook, that being if you can negotiate its obfuscation you feel very, very intelligent indeed, but to negotiate it you simply have to buy a certain type of mtx, fairly regularly. I never took playing the game all that seriously; I took its existence and what it represented very seriously. So maybe that's also why I am where I am, because PoE hasn't changed anywhere near as much as GGG has, at least not in the daily experience of it. This curls back to the common response that what happened wasn't that big a deal aslongasthegamestillworksaslongasstreamersaren'tgettingspecialdropratesaslongasPoEisstillmyfix

...Maybe because my eye was always less on my experience of the game and more on the game itself as a product I was unable to ignore what shit like priority streamer access means to the game itself as a product. Because until very recently, I still thought that an increased focus on mtx creation and selling was the main if not only change GGG underwent in the past few years. Idiot me. It was always about 'big piles of money', and of course merely trying to sell more mtxes wouldn't be where that stopped.

Ultimately I think a company has completely exhausted their ethical card when they can say outright 'we'd rather burn your goodwill and trust in us than a big pile of money, but we'll say sorry for it', but again...it's all implicit. GGG will never just come out and say it (DO THEY REALLY HAVE TO?), and a lot of Exiles are just selfish enough that anything shy of that is at worst something that demands an apology, maybe with a few swear words to show they're REALLY SERIOUS, and then it's back to the business of treating map drop rates like THE END OF THE FUCKING WORLD.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

PoE's main hook, that being if you can negotiate its obfuscation you feel very, very intelligent indeed

There's nothing wrong with being hooked by this, and I am myself, but the sheer amount of people who revel in it and don't realize it baffles me. I could say a lot about it, but I've known this for a while and it's nice finally seeing someone admit that knowing the basics of this game doesn't make them a genius.

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Rascalson wrote:

Code audit several times a year ...

Giggle. Forget it. No company will go for that kind of intrusion to make some gamers happy who might anyway not believe the audit was real.

Nah, that's just unrealistiuc.

Counter question: Would you believe GGG if they came out with a post "We don't give preferential RNG to anyone" (or similar, worded exhaustively)?

If yes: That's good enough for you (and me)
If no: Would you believe the audit was real?

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SisterBlister wrote:

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Rascalson wrote:

Code audit several times a year ...

Giggle. Forget it. No company will go for that kind of intrusion

So they would rather shit the bed at league launches, at the cost of millions, for what, appearances?

If so then they deserve everything they get. And that doesn't involve "support" from me any longer.

Also as a side note, and not directed at you, but more as a general observation in this thread. The amount of people that are willing to be shit on, treated with contempt, and regarded as a pile of money to be shifted around, is just as shocking as the seemingly similar surprise these folks have over the rest of us are not feeling it and are disappointed massively in GGG.

To each their own, but I'm not going to be told how to feel, and where to spend my money. GGG fucked up. Maybe not for "you", but certainly for me, and I suspect, a decent amount of others.

So yes they tried to save a burning pile of money, by setting ablaze another pile elsewhere. Ah, to lose the goodwill of your customers with an attempt of some subtle fuckery, that turned out to be anything other than subtle. Epic fail.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

"

QuiquePoE wrote:

I honestly think, at this point, it doesn't really matter how shocking GGG's behavior is.

Short of them stopping releasing leagues, I belive they can get away with pretty much anything. Not even sure that competiton (leagues behind in development), could sway people away. And that is mostly because the players, the junkies that we are, will remain firmly attached to the game's tits for as long as the hook is provided and choose to justify, minimize, relativize their misconducts.

...and maybe also because their behaviour is some of the least shocking, least immoral behaviour of any game dev team, or even just general business of their revenue size you could probably point to off the cuff.


the fact that this entire thing is an absurd over exaggeration beyond all reason and sense, that ggg are not actually bad people, theyre not a bad company and they havent actually done anything really terrible/unforgiveable does go some way to explaining why most people are just gonna carry on as if ggg are good people working for a good comapny that hasnt done anything terrible or unforgivable.

because, you know, thats actually the reality of the people and the company despite what demented, delusional bullshit has been brewed up in this thread to feed peoples degenerate addiction to outrage.

^ This.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

... GGG fucked up. Maybe not for "you", but certainly for me, and I suspect, a decent amount of others...

For me, too, as I've written in several posts of this thread.

But calling for code audits is unrealistic, unwarranted and wouldn't solve the problem.
Support, don't support, post your grievance or defend GGG. All fine in my book. But that kind of suggestion doesn't help anyone...

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DarthSki44 wrote:

To each their own, but I'm not going to be told how to feel, and where to spend my money. GGG fucked up. Maybe not for "you", but certainly for me, and I suspect, a decent amount of others.

Nah it remains the case that the great bulk of people play game however much they want and don't live on the forums/reddit like it's part of the game. One of the main reasons I feel comfortable posting frequently in this thread despite not fully endorsing the idea of a boycott is that we know no such thing is going to happen.

It was funny watching people come into the thread though with the perspective of '*gasp* what if everyone listened to you and actually did this!?! there would be no more PoE!!' as if that's the way any of this worked.

I don't require GGG told hold my hand and tell me they value my contributions. But when they do something like streamer prio they deliver a loud and clear message about who is expendable. Message received, support changes warranted. That's what this thread has always been about to me - getting people to consider their place in GGG's eyes and evaluating (or re-evaluating) GGG's place in their eyes as a consequence.

I wouldn't deign to tell other how to spend their money other than recommending the very general and common sense advice to 'vote with your wallet'. But it is important to make sure consumers know all the details before they go cast their ballot, and this post remains mandatory reading for the would-be fully informed citizen-exile.