Ice Shot or Cold Ele Hit for Bossing?

I still believe Cold EH is anyhow easier to build on a budget than IS. Even the IS build has Hyrri's Ire, it may not necessarily beat Cold EH for damage.

However, they both not good enough against the end-game bosses, who cannot be frozen. Even Bow Fire EH needs moderate investment to get there.

The biggest limitation of Cold EH is you kinda forced to wear 2x CotB. The fragility means you will be killed by anything you can't freeze, end-game bosses especially.

Speaking of rings, another combination I've discovered is 1x CotB + 1x Malachai's Artifice. You can slot a lightning golem into Artifice if you are elementalist, and Holy Flame Totem for other classes.

Wand Fire EH probably a lot cheaper because not a lot of rare wands can beat Piscator. These builds use the gambling gloves (Hands of High Templar) for +4 skill gem levels from double corruptions, and that solves the lack of additional 6L for their clearing setup. The negative is high INT requirement of Piscator.

Melee Fire EH is the cheapest to make good boss killer but "strike" playstyle not for everyone. The latter is just very unpopular despite the strong numbers you can attain with Paradoxica. The negative is well-rolled Hunter gloves with +1 additional strike targets is very expensive because the mod is unreasonably rare. I solve this problem by simply going for a badly-rolled one or allocate Tribal Fury if nearby.

"

jeerinho wrote:

I still believe Cold EH is anyhow easier to build on a budget than IS. Even the IS build has Hyrri's Ire, it may not necessarily beat Cold EH for damage.

However, they both not good enough against the end-game bosses, who cannot be frozen. Even Bow Fire EH needs moderate investment to get there.

The biggest limitation of Cold EH is you kinda forced to wear 2x CotB. The fragility means you will be killed by anything you can't freeze, end-game bosses especially.

Speaking of rings, another combination I've discovered is 1x CotB + 1x Malachai's Artifice. You can slot a lightning golem into Artifice if you are elementalist, and Holy Flame Totem for other classes.

Wand Fire EH probably a lot cheaper because not a lot of rare wands can beat Piscator. These builds use the gambling gloves (Hands of High Templar) for +4 skill gem levels from double corruptions, and that solves the lack of additional 6L for their clearing setup. The negative is high INT requirement of Piscator.

Melee Fire EH is the cheapest to make good boss killer but "strike" playstyle not for everyone. The latter is just very unpopular despite the strong numbers you can attain with Paradoxica. The negative is well-rolled Hunter gloves with +1 additional strike targets is very expensive because the mod is unreasonably rare. I solve this problem by simply going for a badly-rolled one or allocate Tribal Fury if nearby.

For cold EH to be the same (or better?) than IS you definitely need 2x CotB rings, right? Would crafted rings and/or Circle of Fear make up for them? Altho I guess combat focus EH is pointless without any kind of conversion (apart from phys you can find on gear/tree).

Don't get me started on DW builds and weapon/gem swapping. I absolutely hate stopping to switch out gems, esp if I'm playing Zerker and my rage is degenning. It's why I love 2H builds/bows so I can easily press X on the go.
I suppose I can try your advice to make a 4L clear in gloves (and still be able to use a weap swap to keep clear skill as right click) but seems like a big loss to take. Losing 4 gem slots on your main gear.

I do want to try a melee Zerker sometime but as with the above, or any DW builds I've tried with wands, the gem swap thing is annoying.
Also been told that Zerkers are not in a good place atm and they're bad for league start; let alone Ice Shot/EH builds.

So not sure what I'm doing now. I like meme builds with bows and zerkers but my fav skills are def $$$ to make viable. You're right about IS too; the phys bows are quite expensive. The +3 bows for EH are much easier but I thought you need a +2 neck using woke orb to slam for the neck? Replica Hyrri neck tends to be sometime cheap, which is what I was thinking for Ice Shot.

Might just bite the bullet and try new Deadeye and a Ranger finally, but kinda set on Zerker.

"

For cold EH to be the same (or better?) than IS you definitely need 2x CotB rings, right? Would crafted rings and/or Circle of Fear make up for them? Altho I guess combat focus EH is pointless without any kind of conversion (apart from phys you can find on gear/tree).

Don't get me started on DW builds and weapon/gem swapping. I absolutely hate stopping to switch out gems, esp if I'm playing Zerker and my rage is degenning. It's why I love 2H builds/bows so I can easily press X on the go.
I suppose I can try your advice to make a 4L clear in gloves (and still be able to use a weap swap to keep clear skill as right click) but seems like a big loss to take. Losing 4 gem slots on your main gear.

I do want to try a melee Zerker sometime but as with the above, or any DW builds I've tried with wands, the gem swap thing is annoying.
Also been told that Zerkers are not in a good place atm and they're bad for league start; let alone Ice Shot/EH builds.

So not sure what I'm doing now. I like meme builds with bows and zerkers but my fav skills are def $$$ to make viable. You're right about IS too; the phys bows are quite expensive. The +3 bows for EH are much easier but I thought you need a +2 neck using woke orb to slam for the neck? Replica Hyrri neck tends to be sometime cheap, which is what I was thinking for Ice Shot.

Might just bite the bullet and try new Deadeye and a Ranger finally, but kinda set on Zerker.

To beat CotB, you'll need such an expensive phys/cold bow to compensate for the loss of converted lightning portion from EH. Malachai's Artifice gives huge bossing damage but can't use Hatred if you are using Holy Flame Totem to apply EE.

The top builds I see on Poe.ninja don't weapon-swap, even with bows. They have clearing setup on their chest, and single-target on their bows. Mostly slayers and raiders.

The wander I'm talking about has a shield so you can go charging about, and the strongest class for it in my opinion is the elementalist.

The melee version only needs one 6L setup because it uses in-built "+n additional strike targets" on the gloves. Melee Splash not required because there is innate explosion from the skill. It can be shield or The Saviour in off-hand. Again, the elementalist is good with this. Easier bossing than bows at low investments. Problem is you are leaping around like a frog to pick out stragglers and leaping into densely-packed harbingers gets you killed.

"

jeerinho wrote:

"

For cold EH to be the same (or better?) than IS you definitely need 2x CotB rings, right? Would crafted rings and/or Circle of Fear make up for them? Altho I guess combat focus EH is pointless without any kind of conversion (apart from phys you can find on gear/tree).

Don't get me started on DW builds and weapon/gem swapping. I absolutely hate stopping to switch out gems, esp if I'm playing Zerker and my rage is degenning. It's why I love 2H builds/bows so I can easily press X on the go.
I suppose I can try your advice to make a 4L clear in gloves (and still be able to use a weap swap to keep clear skill as right click) but seems like a big loss to take. Losing 4 gem slots on your main gear.

I do want to try a melee Zerker sometime but as with the above, or any DW builds I've tried with wands, the gem swap thing is annoying.
Also been told that Zerkers are not in a good place atm and they're bad for league start; let alone Ice Shot/EH builds.

So not sure what I'm doing now. I like meme builds with bows and zerkers but my fav skills are def $$$ to make viable. You're right about IS too; the phys bows are quite expensive. The +3 bows for EH are much easier but I thought you need a +2 neck using woke orb to slam for the neck? Replica Hyrri neck tends to be sometime cheap, which is what I was thinking for Ice Shot.

Might just bite the bullet and try new Deadeye and a Ranger finally, but kinda set on Zerker.

To beat CotB, you'll need such an expensive phys/cold bow to compensate for the loss of converted lightning portion from EH. Malachai's Artifice gives huge bossing damage but can't use Hatred if you are using Holy Flame Totem to apply EE.

The top builds I see on Poe.ninja don't weapon-swap, even with bows. They have clearing setup on their chest, and single-target on their bows. Mostly slayers and raiders.

The wander I'm talking about has a shield so you can go charging about, and the strongest class for it in my opinion is the elementalist.

The melee version only needs one 6L setup because it uses in-built "+n additional strike targets" on the gloves. Melee Splash not required because there is innate explosion from the skill. It can be shield or The Saviour in off-hand. Again, the elementalist is good with this. Easier bossing than bows at low investments. Problem is you are leaping around like a frog to pick out stragglers and leaping into densely-packed harbingers gets you killed.

Thanks, will have to consider a lot for my league start and/or main build I want to focus on now. I feel like cold EH will just haunt me knowing that fire is much better. Then there is the +2 neck which is very $$$ to make or buy.

It's funny b/c when I tried Ice Shot zerker a couple leagues ago I had 2x bows for swapping between clear + bossing and in my chest was always totem setup to help on boss dmg.
Then a friend in-game pointed out to me that someone he knows always does the exact same build as me every league and he's the only zerker who does Ice Shot (that shows up on poe.ninja at least).

Anyways, I know it's prob subpar but I like it. As you said tho, phys bows are stupid $$$ so not sure if I should go Ice Shot as a start...and now small nerf to zerker small passives and TR getting nerfed too.

Honestly don't get melee but gonna experiment this week with it. Whatever I do, weap swap or not I basically want to keep my main attack on right click. I've tried having a 2nd clear setup on another button but it didn't feel good.

+2 amulets should be for min-max when you already too rich. I would assume one should build around Pandemonius if they want to go cold and glass cannon, or +1 rare amulet if they wanna be tankier.

For ranged, I use right-click for clearing and middle-click for single-target. I disable the mousewheel zooming in Options. Your weapon-swap is good playstyle too, because it gives additional 6L for totem setup. But personally I find it difficult to keep track of what is my current bow, and having to duplicate the quiver as well. Looks like a lot of money especially if buying two sets for Ice Shot build.

If you are interested in the melee version, this is what happens when pushed to the DPS limits with uniques:
https://pastebin.com/9pHUZ6mp
(I saved with PoB 2.0.3 which I found to be very unstable though. Not sure if you can open without updating too...)
Saviour mirage doubles your DPS. If twinned bosses are standing close to each other, then triple because explosions from your ancestral mirage can overlap. With Corrupted Soul nerf it will be a tissue paper next league. Don't expect to get to Lvl 100 with it.

"

jeerinho wrote:

+2 amulets should be for min-max when you already too rich. I would assume one should build around Pandemonius if they want to go cold and glass cannon, or +1 rare amulet if they wanna be tankier.

For ranged, I use right-click for clearing and middle-click for single-target. I disable the mousewheel zooming in Options. Your weapon-swap is good playstyle too, because it gives additional 6L for totem setup. But personally I find it difficult to keep track of what is my current bow, and having to duplicate the quiver as well. Looks like a lot of money especially if buying two sets for Ice Shot build.

If you are interested in the melee version, this is what happens when pushed to the DPS limits with uniques:
https://pastebin.com/9pHUZ6mp
(I saved with PoB 2.0.3 which I found to be very unstable though. Not sure if you can open without updating too...)
Saviour mirage doubles your DPS. If twinned bosses are standing close to each other, then triple because explosions from your ancestral mirage can overlap. With Corrupted Soul nerf it will be a tissue paper next league. Don't expect to get to Lvl 100 with it.

Oh, the melee version is a witch. Interesting.
Thought it would be a zerker. It's funny b/c I tried tri-Ele Hit with bows on a witch but didn't take it far enough. Was thinking of using Secrets of Suffering and having 3 golems apply the other main ailments. I know there is Skitterbots but that reserves mana though and only hey 2/3 ailmets.

What bothered me as well with tri EH and bows is that you cannot use Barrage Support with EE and iirc, melee zerkers can do tri EH with Multistrike Support while still utilizing EE.
I am kind of interested in trying melee finally but again, I despise gem swapping and not sure if 2H meelee is a thing or not.

When I do bows, which is always, I don't really go out of my way to roll the best stats and stress over a lvl 21 gem since it's just my clear bow. But yes, building a weapon swap can be $$$.

Everyone keeps telling me Ice Shot is terrible for bossing which is why I do like the 6l totem to help. I've tried it with IS totems but might try Siege Ballisa instead (Demonic Arctic totem mtx changes the ballista arrows too which looks cool).
What grinds my gears about 'Ice Shot' build guides is that almost every IS guide is really a Barrage guide on bossing. IMO, a build's strength should be mostly focused on what it can do for bossing.

Maybe I should just go fire EH so I can do all content decently and not struggle for once, but I love fun meme builds.

You are correct about barrage behaviour. This is why for Tri-Ele, the melee version makes more sense. Tri-Ele will be tankier because it can use Primordial Chain for even stronger golem buffs and doesn't need to use Malachai's Artifice to apply EE. There are already guides for that:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2976316/

However, Pure Fire simply deals more damage in any case.

The Secrets of Suffering version you speak of is probably similar to what Mathil showcased in the past.

You just need a Hunter-influenced glove with the strike skills mod or anoint Tribal Fury to make gem swapping a non-necessity. Voidforge probably the best 2H but I highly doubt anything can beat Paradoxica when it comes to scaling flat damages.

Anyway I zerkers would do well with it too for sure. It will be fun to theorycraft a zerker version as well.

"

jeerinho wrote:

You are correct about barrage behaviour. This is why for Tri-Ele, the melee version makes more sense. Tri-Ele will be tankier because it can use Primordial Chain for even stronger golem buffs and doesn't need to use Malachai's Artifice to apply EE. There are already guides for that:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2976316/

However, Pure Fire simply deals more damage in any case.

The Secrets of Suffering version you speak of is probably similar to what Mathil showcased in the past.

You just need a Hunter-influenced glove with the strike skills mod or anoint Tribal Fury to make gem swapping a non-necessity. Voidforge probably the best 2H but I highly doubt anything can beat Paradoxica when it comes to scaling flat damages.

Anyway I zerkers would do well with it too for sure. It will be fun to theorycraft a zerker version as well.

Oh, tri EH melee witch; interesting.
People LOL @ me for going Ice Shot zerker so I could only imagine this, but it does seem fun and tanky, which Elementalist does seem to have a lot of, even after the Aegis nerf to 75/node.

Tbh, I'd have a lot to learn about melee and its gear/gems over the next day or so before league starts so not sure what I'll end up doing.

Right, I do recall Mathil doing a tri-EH zerker not too long ago, but iirc, that was when warcry clusters were OP?
Zerkers with tri-EH cant utilize the small passives in their tree either (apart from atk speed) but not sure if small nodes exactly make or break an ascendancy.

I'm not even sure what to make of the change to Pain Reaver; now Defy Pain. Seems great...until you get to 10 stacks and get insta gibbed and lose your Ultimatum ante. No more atk speed either for that notable. On top of Aspect of Carnage too it's so much damn dmg you take. Witch might be safer overall and will look at this person's guide.

Melee Elementalist with EH doesn't get much, if any gem scaling though? No +2 neck and I don't know much about melee gear so correct me if I'm wrong, but no +2 or +3 DW weapons? Definitely not on Paradoxica. I think crafted 2H can get +3 and not certain about chests.
That would leave witch with only a lvl.24 EH using Empower? Seems like a big gap between the 28-30 that bows + neck can get.

I bought 2x Psychotic axes before league ended and kind of want to try a 95 rage stack zerker or 115 with Bear's Girdle belt + replica gem. Might be too suicidal though.
Tbh, all the gear for a melee Elementalist seems like it totals more than a phys bow but I could be wrong.

Probably going to stay up all night testing things now.

Yes, I do agree with you that build guide can be quite expensive to follow. It also requiring gem swaps. On the other hand, the PoB I provided is on the other end of extremity in terms of DPS per cost and survivability. I am using a +3 chest. A +5 chest would cost around 20ex. https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Standard/zbBgEYgi4
Just need to persistently check until the right colours appear on trade.

Just goes to show how one single skill gem has so many different takes on how it can be played, and the varieties that have written guides are just a tip of the iceberg of possibilities. Probably best to just find a middle-ground between the two, and don't be surprised that the best gear and passive node choices can be totally different on zerker and bows.

There's a lot to take in reading about melee and/or melee zerkers. A few people have told me zerkers are a terrible choice for league start, and melee is bad for LS too, along with Ele Hit.
The new Vaal skills look amazing though.

Tried looking at your chest but chars not avail. Went on CoE to figure out how to craft one and it looks like slamming Elder + Shaper together gets you a +2 chest? Not sure what I'm missing.

DW does look fun, whether it's on witch or zerker but the manual gem swap thing is probably going to be a deal-breaker for me.