Compendium of refutations to arguments on the topic of - "Pay to win in Path of Exile"

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Phrazz wrote:

The vector itself? You actually wanted to debate this, when your OP ended with:

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Pretending that the game is not Pay to Win is simply dishonest.

My opinion is open for criticism and discussion even if I'm confident in it, yes.

If you have to pick a fight over something there's a whole lot more important things in this world to get worked up about.

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Calling PoE P2W is fine. Calling PoE non-P2W is fine. It's all basen on interpretations and opinions, and can not be made binary. But go on, try making your opinion the binary truth.

As with everything else with PoE, you have to discard the usual definition and tilt your head a little. I play actual pay to win games (ironically, mostly for free or as a minnow/dolphin), and PoE definitely doesn't fit under that category. At all.

But if we include 'pay for an advantage', then the argument holds because comprehensive item storage absolutely is that.

By most gamers' standards, assuming any sort of exposure to the world of f2p, this would fall squarely under 'pay for convenience' or 'Quality of life'. I personally consider stash tabs the true cost of the game, and it is an ongoing one for a very good reason: it's a big earner because it's 'necessary' if you want to play the game seriously. The cost far outweighs the inconvenience. Can you truly f2p PoE? Sure. Is it a pain? Yep, and by design. I would challenge anyone to disagree with that.

*shrug* I'm only chiming in because a few of you are talking around the 30k USD sized hole in which I absolutely did not win this game. The OP itself doesn't so much move the goalposts as invent a whole new sport and try to pass it off as an existing one just because it uses the same basic equipment. It's an impressively elaborate attempt at rewriting the rules, but ultimately one that will fail simply because the sport already exists and the goalposts are not particularly mobile -- pun very much intended.

Challenge your definition of P2W. PoE is not a gatcha game P2W at all. I don't see stashes going free, I even actually think that they are fairly priced considering the amount of work GGG had to put in them to work at first place(scalling, storing league stuffs, etc). PoE is the only game providing that, literally.

Yes paying gives you a massive advantage, however there are ways to counteract that and play your own game without spending a cent. An example would be to join a guild with public stashes and traders.

Some MTX just are more clear than base skills wich can be viewed as p2w

In the other hand paying doesn't impact directly your character sheat.

https://www.ted.com/participate/ted-fellows-program/apply-to-be-a-ted-fellow/application-tips

xD

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Shagsbeard wrote:

If you have to pick a fight over something there's a whole lot more important things in this world to get worked up about.

There are, but you know the silent watchers won't let us discuss them.

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Phrazz wrote:

The vector itself? You actually wanted to debate this, when your OP ended with:

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Pretending that the game is not Pay to Win is simply dishonest.

Of course he didn't, and I'm glad I could establish that from the outset. He started off by saying 'narrow and subjective definitions are problem[atic]' then eschewed the classic, broad, objective definition of winning an RPG for his narrow and subjective one, then tried to pretend not to know how hypocritical that is.

If I redefined apples as tacos, or oranges as planets I could make all kinds of arguments. But that would be fruitless.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

The OP itself doesn't so much move the goalposts as invent a whole new sport and try to pass it off as an existing one just because it uses the same basic equipment. It's an impressively elaborate attempt at rewriting the rules, but ultimately one that will fail simply because the sport already exists and the goalposts are not particularly mobile

That's all great but you haven't given an explanation, reason, model or an example why it would be so.
As of now your premise stands on nothing.

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galuf wrote:

Challenge your definition of P2W. PoE is not a gatcha game P2W at all.

I haven't said that it is a gacha game nor anything like it.

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galuf wrote:

I even actually think that they are fairly priced considering the amount of work GGG had to put in them to work at first place(scalling, storing league stuffs, etc). PoE is the only game providing that, literally.

In the other hand paying doesn't impact directly your character sheat.

Even if they were the most fairly priced prices in the world, it would not change the fact that they give an advantage to users who pay the( fair) price.

All P2W games in the world had to put effort in their games.

By smuggling in the word "directly" you make it evident that you understand that there is an indirect impact on your character through paying.
Why does it matter if it's indirect or direct? What's the difference?

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

I play actual pay to win games

Just curious. could u tell me 1 or 2 of them? I'd like to have a look at what winning is in those games. Since you say those are clearly pay to win and not pay for advantage.

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