Rushing to endgame isn't fun, theorycrafting is the fun.

Years ago I played Diablo 2 for thousands of hours, never got to own a top tier rune item, never did ladders, still had fun.

Played POE for thousands of hours, still not at endgame, still having fun.

(massages wrist)

Know what I'm sayin'.

Congratulations, you've just realized that "fun" is subjective, and that it's up to each player to find their own "fun".

It can be for some people. You just copy the meta, work toward it, and soon enough you are steamrolling all content.

Thats not a wrong way to play.

I tend to agree with you, I have trouble playing a build if I have already seen someone else do it to endgame, because then it is already proven so whats the point?

The only bad way to play is where you are not enjoying it.

Rushing the first week or so to get currency to buy things cheap is really fun because it makes you feel like you're beating the system.

Endlessly running delirious maps or currency blueprints back in Heist or Legion monoliths back in Legion got old pretty fast for me though even though that was the meta. Everybody likes different things.

Playing mindlessly without a goal or purpose is fun? I disagree, but fun is subjective so..

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Phrazz wrote:

Congratulations, you've just realized that "fun" is subjective, and that it's up to each player to find their own "fun".

If "fun" involves more time spent outside the game than actually playing it, there is a demonstrable problem. The job of a game designer is to find the fun thing, and focus on it. If the fun thing is creating unique builds, then the focus should be on finding ways to reward that creativity.

GGG lost sight of that a long time ago, instead focusing on hostile game design that punishes creativity. Some might say that build diversity exists, if they consider builds that sputter out in yellow maps to be "viable" and seeing your build slowly grind to a halt as "fun," but that's just a world-class cope. I've been here long enough to know what build diversity used to look like, and it was sure as hell better than what we have now.

you're thinking that fun is objective again.

it doesn't matter how much time you spend in the game vs outside of the game. the question is, do you enjoy your time spent with the game? some people enjoy different aspects of the game then others. this is what he means by subjective. there is no set answer to "what makes this game fun" because it will be different for different people.

i personally like to theorycraft and try to optimize a build or two per league. i hate other aspects. i hate some leagues, like harvest and heist. others LOVE harvest, and LOVE heist. they are different and enjoy different things.

so "fun" is dependent on each person.

some people love rushing to the endgame and completing things as fast as possible. that is how they enjoy the game. who are you to say that isn't the right way to enjoy the game?
nobody, of course. just as they wouldn't try to tell you that what you enjoy in this game is wrong

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AkuTenshiiZero wrote:

If "fun" involves more time spent outside the game than actually playing it, there is a demonstrable problem. The job of a game designer is to find the fun thing, and focus on it. If the fun thing is creating unique builds, then the focus should be on finding ways to reward that creativity.

GGG lost sight of that a long time ago, instead focusing on hostile game design that punishes creativity. Some might say that build diversity exists, if they consider builds that sputter out in yellow maps to be "viable" and seeing your build slowly grind to a halt as "fun," but that's just a world-class cope. I've been here long enough to know what build diversity used to look like, and it was sure as hell better than what we have now.

Where did that come from?

I've been here since the beginning too - more or less - and build diversity has ALWAYS been an issue. It will always be an issue, because it will always be subjective - and how we choose to define "diversity" and "viable".

That said, in a lot of areas, I think we've never had more diversity than we have now. Sure, melee was maybe better in the good ol' "Shaper Stat Stick" days, at least dual wielding. Sure, bow builds have definitely been in a better spot. But this is all if we compare them to other skills. If we compare the power Harvest gives us (and will give us), there's very few skills you cannot beat the whole game with. You could NOT say that in 2016. Or 2017.

Look, we "all" know bow skills need a buff, especially non-DoT builds. We all know melee needs a buff, especially non-DoT builds and non-slam builds. Hell, strike skills need more than a buff. Hell, even non-archmage self-casting needs a buff. But when the game changes as much as it does every league, there's bound to be skills and builds left behind. It's just sad to see the same archetypes being left behind league after league. But there's only so much they can do.

But as a bottom line? 90% of all skills designed to be a main skill, can do all content. There aren't many patches in the history of PoE where that's the case. Harvest is of course a factor in that. But compared to the "big shots"? You are totally right, some skills are lacking if we compare it to BV, DD and certain other spells.

Fun is subjective. But as long as you're having it thats all that matters. I used to like bookworming this game...wrote guides even...GGG featured even. Not so much anymore. I just want to blow monsters up at the end of the day to forget about my day. Cool off so to speak. What I liked at 16 is much different than 26.

I seriously doubt I even be playing video games by 36. Be fishing or something in spare time like, uh Chris.

for me its fun killing a9 sirus in the first week and then go for the challenges in the second