League or Standard?

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Icholas wrote:

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Elua wrote:

Standard is junk, avoid it at all cost. Playing it will hinder your progress and make things much harder.

I mean starting again from zero every three months really puts a stop to progress.

Sure but most people are done with the league in a couple of weeks, and for other people that just start a new character when they're done with their current one it's also not an issue.

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

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jack_aubrey wrote:

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lolozori wrote:

Hard to get rich in std

???

I think I just read a thread where someone showed how there's 10 top-tier ways to make currency outside of Harvest crafting. Are any of those 10 methods so severely less viable in Standard that you stand to make no currency? Like does deep-delving for fractured fossils make you 1 transmute on trade? Or maybe the fact that Maven Orbs are 30+ exalted right now in Standard, tripling your income compared to doing it in league?

Maven Orbs in League
Maven Orbs in Standard

Maybe I'm too stupid to understand.

The simplest thing is much much much more expensive in standard. Unless you manage to live in a sellers vacuum, this is awful. What's hard to understand?

"Hard to get rich in std" is the quote I'm responding to. 1 Maven orb drop guarantees you 30 exalted. So, maybe that's not "rich" for you but I will bet on the fact that there's legions of players that could make fantastic builds out of 30 exalted orbs. To them, that's rich.

Simplest things are much more expensive in Standard. Okay, like what? Shavs are 20c uniques in Standard meanwhile those are 10x as expensive on a league start. Dying suns? 20c on a usual day. League start? 10x that. What builds are you looking at where the level of currency required is so outlandish in Standard that somehow temp league play delivers it for pennies?

If you don't sell a single thing in Standard then look at that guy's post I linked at the top of my comment. You won't be hurting for currency if you pick one of them. Then at the end of all this, I have to ask: what the hell do you have against Standard? We're playing the same game and the same mid-league currency farming strategies that you might watch on YouTube apply just as equally in Standard.

League

Different strokes for different folks. Some people don't like the restarts, others thrive on it. The secret is to discover for yourself which suits you best.

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jack_aubrey wrote:

Simplest things are much more expensive in Standard. Okay, like what? Shavs are 20c uniques in Standard meanwhile those are 10x as expensive on a league start. Dying suns? 20c on a usual day. League start? 10x that. What builds are you looking at where the level of currency required is so outlandish in Standard that somehow temp league play delivers it for pennies?

Yeah lol, almost everything is more expensive in league. It is true that the most expensive items on standard are a lot more expensive than those in league but that is simply because league can't produce the same powerlevels.

Most of you are totally forgetting

--the OP is a guy who just started playing
--he already has a buddy in league
--Lots of people still START in standard

When YOU started:

--Did you start in a league, or in Standard?
--How was it getting started? Would you go back and do it differently, provided you have firsthand experience of starting a new character in a new league (or in Standard)?
--Besides the obvious economic differences, and your personal opinions about them, are there any other factors that a new player should be aware of to make their life easier?

A lot of folks seem to love the sound of their own voices and forget the guy even asked a valid question.

If this were my first league:

--I'd start in league. 80-90% of players at any given time are in league, not Standard.

--This is important for trade. Much easier to find items for trade with more sellers listing items.

--It's cheaper, yes

--This is important for character progression. Everything from pubby leveling/rushing parties, to uber lab trials, to unlocking important crafting recipes, is shared on global 820. Far more people sharing in 820 on League than on Standard.

--Gimmick content (the league mechanic) is widely available. If you want to get better at the league mechanics, or finish a challenge, this is where you get your fill. Not when it's gated behind mapping or a special subarea of the game.

Cons:
--First few weeks of league have serious bugs, crashes, performance issues, and balance problems. It's a rough ride
--You have 3 months to build a character capable of endgame shit
--After the first month or so, server population dwindles to a small fraction what it was on the first week, and it can get tough to find trades and trials
--If you want to keep working on that character, you have to play Standard, and deal with remove-only tabs, sparse interactions with others, sparse trade, and content that is gated behind the cost of maps and frags
--RMT bots and botfarmers will fill up all the useful chat channels with ads and garbage, spam your trade listings, and so forth. This is less of a problem in Standard

Starting in Standard:

--You have a long time to develop and perfect a character
--Some things are cheaper and people often give away things for free (but never ask or beg, it's rude in Standard just like it's rude in League)
--Fewer bugs, slightly fewer performance issues
--Working with veteran players gives you a stronger sense of what the best gear should look like, how it should perform, etc. Sure, it's outside your price range by orders of magnitude, but you learn what mods and stats are useful for things you want to do.
--Some shortcuts in Standard to jump-start your atlas progress, save your work in delve, syndicate, etc
--you can start or refit new characters without having to hunt down trials ever again
--Don't have to deal with remove-only tabs. That said, no matter where you are in the game, it's absolutely a must: Do not pick up or keep everything you see. Learn to use a loot filter, learn to let go and sell or leave behind things that are almost but not quite good-enough.

Cons:
--It gets stale in the middle of the season
--High-end items are expensive. This may work in your favour if you're into crafting and gambling. If you're not, though, it can be extra painful trying to improve your gear
--People share stuff less. They don't need to meet a deadline and they often have builds that are years in perfection so they don't need your help. There are no "challenges" so nobody is sharing boss encounters for that, either. You'll be expected to do more for yourself or find some reliable friends who want to share with you.
--You may miss out on a league drop that gets nerfed later, something that is perfect for you but you'll have to try and do without it.

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

Spoiler

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sofocle10000 wrote:

LOL, of course a league player with horse blinders can't even comprehend the TencentGGG view on the sanctioned "core" experience aka Standard, but you're welcomed to try to properly counter-argue.

Until then, it's actually the "de facto" state of the affairs I'm afraid...

You can stop stating your opinion like it's a objective fact. It's really amusing, but very strange.

You can stop thinking that "my" opinion is "amusing, but very strange" as long as the objective fact of TencentGGG considering Standard the "core" league and continuously improving and balancing it, still remains (or they wouldn't have even bothered with "legacy" status for various uniques or even the Atlas adjustments).

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but Standard matters, and while some players are easily swayed by the "moth" playstyle of leagues, others prefer the "long game" of a persistent experience.

Still waiting for proper arguments to support your view...

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sofocle10000 wrote:

objective fact of TencentGGG considering Standard the "core" league and continuously improving and balancing it, still remains (or they wouldn't have even bothered with "legacy" status for various uniques or even the Atlas adjustments).

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but Standard matters, and while some players are easily swayed by the "moth" playstyle of leagues, others prefer the "long game" of a persistent experience.

Still waiting for proper arguments to support your view...

Legacy items are akin to cheating, and no one cares about standard. It's literally the dumpster where everything goes when a league ends. Your "objective fact" is semantics at best, and at worse flat out wrong.

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Still waiting for proper arguments to support your view...

It's hard to take a standard only player seriously. You got spunk I'll give you that.

I play a mixture of league and Standard.

If a league introduces some new and exciting gameplay, and I'll dive straight in.

If a league doesn't look to interesting or fun, I'll skip it. Or, if I've overcooked a bit on a previous league, I might want to take a break from all the go-faster bullshit.

Sometimes it's nice to relax a bit and play with all the toys you've accumulated over the last few leagues. I don't trade, I rarely if ever play in groups. Just doesn't interest me.

Some people get all trollish about dumpster Standard. Who cares? You don't know them, they don't know you. It's a game. Enjoy it whatever way you like.

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

Spoiler

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sofocle10000 wrote:

objective fact of TencentGGG considering Standard the "core" league and continuously improving and balancing it, still remains (or they wouldn't have even bothered with "legacy" status for various uniques or even the Atlas adjustments).

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but Standard matters, and while some players are easily swayed by the "moth" playstyle of leagues, others prefer the "long game" of a persistent experience.

Still waiting for proper arguments to support your view...

Legacy items are akin to cheating, and no one cares about standard. It's literally the dumpster where everything goes when a league ends. Your "objective fact" is semantics at best, and at worse flat out wrong.

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Still waiting for proper arguments to support your view...

It's hard to take a standard only player seriously. You got spunk I'll give you that.

"No one cares about standard" is a nice way to describe >20% of the playerbase according to TencentGGG on their "last statistic" that highlighted player representation in core vs league...

Legacy items can be called "cheating" only in league players "hurt" snowflake view, as most are at par with the "broken power creep" introduced, and a "puny" HH still tends to render most items equipped null, so "legacy" or NO "legacy", you still have more broken avenues to explore...

Me having "spunk" is a nice way to trying to deflect the fact that you should change the "it's hard to take a standard only player seriously" view, when it's even more difficult to take the views of league players with no "accomplishments" and no presented proper arguments/counter-arguments seriously.

Sadly this seems a one way discussion, so you're as welcomed to keep thinking your the "league elitist" mantras, when we all know that the facts that I stated still hold true, and they only hurt your kind of players ego.

Sad to expect more on the PoE forum.

Alas, Standard still matters and will matter for the foreseeable future, so learn to deal with it...

PS: The so called "dumpster" league aka Standard the CORE experience of PoE is still "light years better" than most of the "meh" 3 month content that graced us with their presence, heck, even by simply incorporating those additions in a way that is toned down, it still feels and "plays" better than ever...