We need a Delve Scaling Overhaul

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DesselDyad wrote:

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zmandude24 wrote:

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DesselDyad wrote:

for instance, the current meta is a 90% max res transcendence build.. meaning 15% additional max resistance cap (from 75) and then as close to 100% physical damage conversion as you can get.. with as much block and fortify effect etc etc etc as you can get

Look at the leaderboards and tell me how many of those "meta" builds are at the top. I don't see any but what I do see is a majority of 1 hp Deadeye builds. I don't see a single build with over 4k hp on the first page of the leaderboards.

yes, because that's the softcore meta.. that's literally what i wrote.. LITERALLY read what i wrote.. the transcendence build is primarily designed for hardcore.. for softcore that's just not the meta, and that's ok, and that's fine, and that's the way it is.. o:

what's wrong with that? why is that even as issue to you?

delve is the one infinite game mechanic.. everything else, literally everything else, even the Feared fight, eventually get's trivialized, especially in softcore.. Delve is the single one thing that remains challenging.. and that's a good thing..

The fact that delve is the only content that remains challenging is the main reason why it needs to be balanced.

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thx for that

ugh xD

*wiping away tears* xD

ahahahah thank you so much.

that was awesome

Scaling the damage is kinda stupid when you are already getting one shotted in depth 600

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MasterTBC wrote:

Scaling the damage is kinda stupid when you are already getting one shotted in depth 600

not nessecarily, since you can got infinitely sideways, too.. it's literally just a linear progression..

I just think that delve should be balanced better because even Diablo 3 had better balance at launch for their Inferno difficulty. The mobs hit like trucks and were walking tanks but you could still clear it with every class if you farmed the gear. Anything that could one-shot a prepared melee character was avoidable. Compare that with it being impossible to play melee in 4 digit depths but having absolutely NOTHING that can stop a kiting build if the player is good.

I believe Delve was intended to be an endless type situation that wouldn't require much upkeep.

Ideally all builds should be halted at a certain point and that point would be ever growing based on power creep added to the game over time. Obviously some builds should be better at Delve like others are with different content but a gap in the thousands just shows flaws in core design. Not Delve.

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Xzorn wrote:

I believe Delve was intended to be an endless type situation that wouldn't require much upkeep.

Ideally all builds should be halted at a certain point and that point would be ever growing based on power creep added to the game over time. Obviously some builds should be better at Delve like others are with different content but a gap in the thousands just shows flaws in core design. Not Delve.

well no not really at all whatsoever.

there's 3 overall categories of builds:

1) ultimate immortal god tank builds (a.k.a. hardcore/ssf hardcare builds) that stack every single kind of defensive layer the game has to offer. As delve (and this is key) doesn't require much damage, because delve only scales damage, not hp for monsters, these types of builds don't need to worry about DPS, only surviveability.

2) "the softcore version" - literally, LITERALLY 0 defenses, usually with 200-300 energy shield, that's it, who are the ultimate incarnation of "Just don't get hit", in the most literal sense. Usually these use, for instance, icicle mines to just freeze everything in their vicinity while dealing stupid amounts of damage. These builds usually can't map, they can't boss, they can't do simulacrum, they can't do much of anything besides delving. They are specifically designed and custom tailored, for delving.

3) Everything inbetween. Basically, "normal" softcore players. These can go about as deep as the hardcore variation, however differently. Hardcore is generally better suited for delving, and doesn't die as much - but eventually, since delve is infinite, they do die. Normal softcore players die way more often and frequently than hardcore players (trololol, obviously) but can't nessecarily go much deeper, since you can't complete nodes anymore, eventually, because you get one-shot. And lastly, there's the 2) 2nd category i described. These don't concern themselves with the damage-scaling, because they're never get hit anyway and, as such, are capable of going much deeper than any "normal" character is SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE to go.

The fundamentally wrong assumption here is, that every build should be able to do every content. This is wrong. In fact many a player levels different character for different purposes. E.g. bossing character, speed-mapping characters, darkness farmers, deep delvers etc etc etc.

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DesselDyad wrote:

The fundamentally wrong assumption here is, that every build should be able to do every content. This is wrong. In fact many a player levels different character for different purposes. E.g. bossing character, speed-mapping characters, darkness farmers, deep delvers etc etc etc.

I specifically said some builds should be better at Delve than others. It should be like that for most tangent content. There's nothing wrong with that. The flaw comes when there's a 2000% difference.

Power Creep is both an offensive and defensive concept. If players get one-shot but can kill enemies at 2000% that level then there's obviously something horribly wrong.

As I mentioned I believe the intent of the content was a scaling softcap on how far players can go which extends over time as we do more damage and can take more damage. The being able to avoid everything forever approach is a fault of GGG by giving players too much movement.

Every time I play a Zoom character 90% of attacks miss just because I'm moving. Not because I intentionally avoided them. Both Warframe and PoE made that mistake.

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Xzorn wrote:

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DesselDyad wrote:

Every time I play a Zoom character 90% of attacks miss just because I'm moving. Not because I intentionally avoided them. Both Warframe and PoE made that mistake.

Debateable. Moving == Dodging. So that's actually fine, in my own personal opinion.

Otherwise a good point, though - monster HP should scale just like monster damage does. Hadn't considered that - i must admit, good point.