Elemental attack builds are still way too far behind compared to physical builds

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nubmoj wrote:

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demonstorm wrote:

Mostly because the impale mechanics. Even after all the impale nerfs, an impale champion still dishes out ridiculous damage while being extremely tanky. Previously, impale was over the top and your damage would overkill anything. Now, it just kills anything just right.


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Could you maybe please eloberate how impale is so powerful , asking as someone who hasn't played poe much since introduction of impale . Also i do agree that elemental attack builds dont get love . Maybe the issue is because of dmg convertion works in poe . Say phys can go to 800 to 1000 on high ends and pure single element can only go upto 600 on average . This will severely limit its potential if its not converted or how we call it double dip. Because if it goes to 1000 dps on fire alone it will create massive balance problem.

For example a pure phys will never double dip like a spell converted from phys to light to cold to fire . Although the converting process needs investment if the gap in brackets is large it will out dps a phys by many magnitude.

Atleast thats how i think ele hit builds will never shine.

Even if you're not going Champ with impale ascendancy, by taking three notables and passives leading to them, totaling 9 passive points, and using one support gem that already has 15% more phys damage by itself, you gain impale DPS nearly equal to the used skill, assuming you have enough attack speed to quickly build up the stacks. That makes it quite a cost-effective damage amplifier for many builds.

Edit: and the passives are located close to the important +life nodes, making pathing easy for most physical builds.

Even elemental hit is lagging behind impale builds a lot. GGG nerfing master of metal like it's going to make a difference, putting champions from farming uber elder day 3 to day 4. Meanwhile, I got my ass mopped by uber elder with great gear. With the budget I put into this build, I could have farmed uber elder easily on an impale character.

Impale is not only extremely powerful and opportunistic while building something around it, but it's also a very strong single target tool.

On another note, how tf could have they made barrage support so fkin bad...

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demonstorm wrote:

Even elemental hit is lagging behind impale builds a lot. GGG nerfing master of metal like it's going to make a difference, putting champions from farming uber elder day 3 to day 4. Meanwhile, I got my ass mopped by uber elder with great gear. With the budget I put into this build, I could have farmed uber elder easily on an impale character.

Impale is not only extremely powerful and opportunistic while building something around it, but it's also a very strong single target tool.

On another note, how tf could have they made barrage support so fkin bad...

Karma for all the years of tornado shot and molten jugg...but only if you were actually around back when those builds were OP

If you showed up after the big nerfs, it's just demoralising

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crunkatog wrote:

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demonstorm wrote:

Even elemental hit is lagging behind impale builds a lot. GGG nerfing master of metal like it's going to make a difference, putting champions from farming uber elder day 3 to day 4. Meanwhile, I got my ass mopped by uber elder with great gear. With the budget I put into this build, I could have farmed uber elder easily on an impale character.

Impale is not only extremely powerful and opportunistic while building something around it, but it's also a very strong single target tool.

On another note, how tf could have they made barrage support so fkin bad...

Karma for all the years of tornado shot and molten jugg...but only if you were actually around back when those builds were OP

If you showed up after the big nerfs, it's just demoralising

I've been around then, but it's not fair. Back then, everyone could complete all content with ease. Bosses were significantly weaker. Maybe tornado shot did it a bit better, but right now bow builds can't do jack shit if you're not an impale bow build. I'm literally stuck in maven progression after I actually completed an entire simulacrum. So it's either my build has fuck all single target damage or the new content is overtuned... as it has always been?

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demonstorm wrote:

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crunkatog wrote:

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demonstorm wrote:

Even elemental hit is lagging behind impale builds a lot. GGG nerfing master of metal like it's going to make a difference, putting champions from farming uber elder day 3 to day 4. Meanwhile, I got my ass mopped by uber elder with great gear. With the budget I put into this build, I could have farmed uber elder easily on an impale character.

Impale is not only extremely powerful and opportunistic while building something around it, but it's also a very strong single target tool.

On another note, how tf could have they made barrage support so fkin bad...

Karma for all the years of tornado shot and molten jugg...but only if you were actually around back when those builds were OP

If you showed up after the big nerfs, it's just demoralising

I've been around then, but it's not fair. Back then, everyone could complete all content with ease. Bosses were significantly weaker. Maybe tornado shot did it a bit better, but right now bow builds can't do jack shit if you're not an impale bow build. I'm literally stuck in maven progression after I actually completed an entire simulacrum. So it's either my build has fuck all single target damage or the new content is overtuned... as it has always been?

Welcome to no longer being the target market for this game. I've had to rework my melee dudes to not use molten strike, cold conversion flik, etc and it costs 10x more to upgrade their gear now because pure phys is "popular".

Use what works, all I can say. It may be out of your reach now that impale is the only way to get damage to stick. Bleed? Hah every other map I roll says "very high chance to ignore poison, blind, or bleeding" well there's 2/3 of some builds' damage, poof. You don't ever roll "very high chance to be un-impale-able". Barrage is a joke with the "bosses start their shit while they are still invulnerable so good luck preloading damage" rule they made up recently.

I would totes do sims with you to scrape together cash to buy impale mod gear. Just sayin'. But they will move the goalposts again, and then the pendulum will swing away from impale/pure phys and back to some other combat trick stacking that is locked behind a price wall. Then brittle-inducing stats will be BiS, or maybe burning ground creating effects (bypasses ignite immunity), or something else narrow and ridiculous.

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zzang wrote:

To be honest Bow builds got a gigantic buff with Deadeye this patch.

Single target and AoE clear for my guild mates that all play elemental bow mf builds doubled. +2 Arrows as well yeah..

Farshot providing 60% more damage from distance plus barrage no spread is insane. All you need to do is stack as much elemental abyss jewels as you can the damage will ramp up quite significantly with bows. Even the current Abyss jewel implementation is very big.

Elemental bow builds are more than fine. If anything GGG needs to pay attention so that the scaling of flat elemental damage from abyss jewels and other sources with high attack speed bows doesnt get out of hand.

OK, but you cant use Deadeye Barrage Support (or BS at all) with tri ele hit if you take EE. It messed it up.

I'm sick of everyone and their grandma telling me to "just play fire ele hit".

The new Trinity Support gem is nice, but we weren't really lacking for sources of +more dmg elsewhere.

I wish on top of love for ele attack builds they take a look at tri-ele hit some more.

Even fire elemental hit is very far behind a bow impale champion. I've invested tens of exalts in my build and I'm not close to farming 60% delirious maps without dying a lot. With my impale champion, I was farming 80% delirious maps on half this budget.

Master of metal got a huge damage nerf, so it's a little more balanced but yeah impale effect + pride are just too efficient at what they do, scaling pure damage. Ele attacks lack good support gems and aura gems. Hatred for instance is not as good as pride is.

You guys going MoM when flat ele scaling? That solves a lot of defensive and damage problems.

There is this trick where you get an essence worm, put Anger or Wrath in Essence Worm, get supreme ego so the chosen aura give like 250 flat damage and then use arcane cloak (replace move only with it so its always active) for another 150-200 flat damage. Then the attack skillgem will probably also give 100 flat damage somewhat.

500-600 flat damage for a ring slot and some skillpoints and then having 8-10k ehp easily just for playing MoM. Thats a pretty good start for any flat ele attack build. Thats like lvl 21 elemental hit base damage tier at this point already.

I agree though the ranger area itself is not so good for flat ele scalers because reliable defensive stuff is missing and lots of nodes are outdated, while templar/witch zone is always kept FRESH. I would never trust all those RNG defenses or Winddancer in HC. Also, pure phys and impale is meta tier strong currently indeed.

Walking all across the skilltree for getting MoM is the most annoying part for me, as a dude who starts at the marauder tree, at flat ele scaling but since there arcane cloak we kinda must do that since 150-200 flat damage is like an added lightning damage gem.

What hit me most as a flat ele scaling lover was that exerted attacks from warcries just work well with slow hitting builds and dont support multistrike. Rip 12 attacks per second, rip targeting.

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The_Human_Tornado wrote:

You guys going MoM when flat ele scaling? That solves a lot of defensive and damage problems.

There is this trick where you get an essence worm, put Anger or Wrath in Essence Worm, get supreme ego so the chosen aura give like 250 flat damage and then use arcane cloak (replace move only with it so its always active) for another 150-200 flat damage. Then the attack skillgem will probably also give 100 flat damage somewhat.

500-600 flat damage for a ring slot and some skillpoints and then having 8-10k ehp easily just for playing MoM. Thats a pretty good start for any flat ele attack build. Thats like lvl 21 elemental hit base damage tier at this point already.

I agree though the ranger area itself is not so good for flat ele scalers because reliable defensive stuff is missing and lots of nodes are outdated, while templar/witch zone is always kept FRESH. I would never trust all those RNG defenses or Winddancer in HC. Also, pure phys and impale is meta tier strong currently indeed.

Walking all across the skilltree for getting MoM is the most annoying part for me, as a dude who starts at the marauder tree, at flat ele scaling but since there arcane cloak we kinda must do that since 150-200 flat damage is like an added lightning damage gem.

Arcane Cloak + MoM together? Isn't that counterproductive? I cant see my zerker having the mana for that, let alone just MoM and the regen aspect as well.

I run Anger + Vitality with enough mana left to attack but not enough for MoM....altho I have seriously considered MoM as my Immortal Call is sometimes not enough.
Not sure about losing out on a ring stat with all those stats either, but you're right it would make MoM viable.

Idk about other bow skills but for Ele Hit and Explosive Arrow they need +gems levels way more than flat added dmg?
Ice Shot and Burning Arrow as where flat added would work much better I thought?

Anyways, really hope GGG sees this and does something to make tri-ele hit competitive with fire convert.