Some questions about playing totems

You get 12% more damage with 6 totems, but you have reduced skill damage (40%-21%) using multiple spell totem support.

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moumout wrote:

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Aynix wrote:

In 3.13 you get 5% more DMG per totem. Currently its 3%. If you have 6 totems (which is normal for Hiero totems) its 12% more DMG.

yep forgot about that, but summoning 2 totems at a time was really good.
we need to try it to know.

(how did you get 6 totems ? i count 1 base totem, 1 with ancestral bound, 1 ascendancy, 1 soul mantle, ... maybe 1 from shaper shield ? and the last ?)

Multi Totem support ofc. Its pretty much the best support gem for any totem build.

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Aynix wrote:

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AlienCrimeLord wrote:

p.s Hierophant got a nerf for totems. It looks like GGG are going to try force totem players to use multiple totem support if they want to cast two totems at a time.
Depending on what the patch notes bring, totems have so far been nerfed for next league. But they should still be fine to play.

Hierophant got BUFFED in 3.13

What world do you live in? There very best thing you can possibly say is it's a wash. But, in reality, its absolutely a nerf. Multi totem support is a garbage gem and forcing us to use it is bad.

Still squishy af.

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Drackenith wrote:

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Aynix wrote:

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AlienCrimeLord wrote:

p.s Hierophant got a nerf for totems. It looks like GGG are going to try force totem players to use multiple totem support if they want to cast two totems at a time.
Depending on what the patch notes bring, totems have so far been nerfed for next league. But they should still be fine to play.

Hierophant got BUFFED in 3.13

What world do you live in? There very best thing you can possibly say is it's a wash. But, in reality, its absolutely a nerf. Multi totem support is a garbage gem and forcing us to use it is bad.

Calling pretty much BiS support gem "garbage". I chuckled.

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Aynix wrote:

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moumout wrote:

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Aynix wrote:

In 3.13 you get 5% more DMG per totem. Currently its 3%. If you have 6 totems (which is normal for Hiero totems) its 12% more DMG.

yep forgot about that, but summoning 2 totems at a time was really good.
we need to try it to know.

(how did you get 6 totems ? i count 1 base totem, 1 with ancestral bound, 1 ascendancy, 1 soul mantle, ... maybe 1 from shaper shield ? and the last ?)

Multi Totem support ofc. Its pretty much the best support gem for any totem build.

GGG may be attempting to make this the case in 3.13 by restricting the QoL of summoning 2 totems, but it's not at all true at the moment. Do the math.

In 3.12, if you have 4 base totems (Soul Mantle or shield mod) and have Heiro's 3% more per totem, multiple totems support currently grants ~25% more dps. In 3.13, multiple totems support will grant ~28% more dps with 5% more damage per totem. If you only have 3 base totems, multiple totem support grants ~39% more dps in 3.12 and will grant ~43% more in 3.13.

What this means is that in 3.13, multiple totems support will be a good link if you only have 3 totems, but gets far worse if you actually invest into an influenced shield or are using a Soul Mantle setup. Right now, it's not a good support link for a Heiro under almost any circumstances. The exception is if it's being used for a separate support totem rather than a main dps link.

There is a new opportunity cost being imposed that blocks off other supports that would add more dps. Essentially, this is a nerf to totem builds.

We're also not taking into account the removal of cast speed/stacking damage increase on kill, which are useful against high-hp mobs.

Why would you ever use Soul Mantle, its dog shit vendor trash unique.

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Aynix wrote:

Why would you ever use Soul Mantle, its dog shit vendor trash unique.

Idk, go yell at all the people who use it for solid dps setups that are also inherently immune to curses. It's used pretty commonly.

But if you dislike it, that's fine. Get a shaper +1 totem shield. That's what I did for my dark pact Heiro (surprisingly not a bad spell with astral projector ring); went with cloak of defiance for chest instead.

Either way, multiple totems support isn't the best option now and will only be used for QoL in 3.13. If totem builds all do need to use it for that QoL, then totem dps is being nerfed - that's what the math tells us.

So the discussion isn't whether Heiro got nerfed, because it did. The discussion is whether that was justified or whether it's really that big of a deal in the first place. Certainly, characters with very expensive gear are going to destroy everything in a few seconds regardless. But I don't play at that level of wealth, so I'm having a very different discussion than those who do.

Of course, this all assumes multiple totems support gem isn't being buffed in some other way, which we don't know yet. If it is, then no worries and this conversation was just an exercise in speculation.

Hiero got buffed for everyone who already used multiple totem support.

Heiro got a HUGE clearing nerf.

They lost the "6% increased damage for each enemy killed by you or your totems recently"

For fast clearing, this could be hundreds of % increased damage.

It's just GONE...poof.

Replaced by a small increase to the "more damge per totem"