3.13 Inquisitor Rework or "Look how they massacred my boy"

I'm liking the new ES regen, I play lots of life/ES melee Templars and that will be great. Sucks to lose the mana regen, but 15 did always seem a bit too much convenience.

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ribaldron wrote:

Fanaticism is "one charge per second, if you melee'd in the last second" - this sounds as if it is either permanent or has 80% uptime (at worst 4 up / 1 down) depending on how exactly it is calculated if you're melee. 75% More Attack Speed is incredible. If you're meleeing it should be basically permanent. It will be harder to utilize this as a self-caster due to the 1/sec limitation unless you're Shield Charging for instance, then it will likely still be spotty.

Unfortunately, Fanatacism doesn't give attack speed (unless there's been an update I missed?). Meaning this class no longer has an attack speed boost since they took the one off the consecrated ground line. Damn.

I like the concept of fanticism but 4 seconds to stack ot seems a bit long given the fast pace of the game.

Still, I guess you can keep casting even while building fanat. stacks.

I just hope it has a good visual indicator on your character like an aura so we don't waste time checking the buff icons to see if Fanat. is active.

I am fairly sure that fanatism will end up being useless. It can only be used for selfcast and close to 100% of selfcast builds use either Spellecho or Unleash meaning the increased cast speed will have little effect on your DPS output. Certainly not enough to justify uselessly meleeing around for 4 seconds in order to have a 4 second window for DPS output which might very well end up being cut short by you having to dodge boss attacks or some invulnerbility phase. The reduced mana cost isn't something you can rely on when playing selfcast and if you can sustain without it it becomes useless, it's also highly detrimental to Archemage builds which kills the node for most builds using unleash entirely. Aoe is nice for clear i guess but i doubt it's going to be enough to justify taking that node. Battlemage is pretty strong for both melee and caster builds but it's probably going to end there for most builds.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

I am fairly sure that fanatism will end up being useless. It can only be used for selfcast and close to 100% of selfcast builds use either Spellecho or Unleash meaning the increased cast speed will have little effect on your DPS output.

It's useless for unleash, but echo has a cast speed multiplier so you'd get pretty much the same dps boost with or without echo. I'd say it all depends on the fanatic charge duration, if it's the standard 10s you'd eventually get fanaticism just by shield charging or whirling around, which is what you'll be doing anyway. With that kind of cast speed you can get quite a few spells off in 4s, the duration is decent and if you have to use a movement skill during that window you do lose dps but that's one less charge you'll have to earn later.
On the flip side, it costs 4 ascendancy points to get the passive, and the first one probably won't give you that much added damage, considering you'll be limited to a 1h weapon to use those movement skills.

Well there are obliteration, moonsorrow and a few other 1h uniques that are suited for spells and have a decent amount of weapon damage but even with those, i really don't see why i would want to spend the 2 points for instruments of zeal. I'll take the added flat and be done with it, fanatism is too situational for my taste. Maybe some streamer will find a way to actually make that node usefull but i don't see one. The costs and limitations just aren't worth the payoff.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Well there are obliteration, moonsorrow and a few other 1h uniques that are suited for spells and have a decent amount of weapon damage but even with those, i really don't see why i would want to spend the 2 points for instruments of zeal. I'll take the added flat and be done with it, fanatism is too situational for my taste. Maybe some streamer will find a way to actually make that node usefull but i don't see one. The costs and limitations just aren't worth the payoff.

Hard to say how popular will be, probably depends if mathil plays it or not, but I don't think we can call it situational, that's a drawback when the situation offers variable benefit, is tricky to set up or doesn't depend on you at all. In this case it can be triggered reliably, we can have a decent idea of how often it will be up and how much we gain by it.

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sidtherat wrote:

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ribaldron wrote:

Here are things you're missing: It's free Zealot's Oath with no downside. You do not gain % regen bonuses based on your ES, it has always converted the numeric value of your life regen. If you're life/armour based, you're probably going to see 2k ES regen per second, in addition to keeping your life regen. That's a lot better than 200.

2000? how did you get to that number?

if you are life/AR based (AR is worthless btw) you wont have more than 2.5-3k ES (unless shaper touch tricks etc - but then, Guardian low-life is just better) then, with your typical 5-10% life regen that equals to ~200ES/s not 2000ES/s

show me a life based build - that has damage and is not an aurastacker - that has these numbers..

big value of that 200 flat was EB/MOM, in fact it was so good that i kinda understand why it went away. that flat mana regen tho - that hurts

If you're going Life/Armour like the OP who was complaining about the change does let's say you have 6k life, which makes sense because you can make great use out of a life as extra ES chest. 6k is a very reasonable number to have, possibly even low. Even using the LOW ESTIMATE you provided of 5% (which, by the way, is actually a lower number than the effect of actually standing in Consecrated Ground alone) you're at 300 HP/sec, or 300 ES/sec. 50% stronger than the previous bonus. Then you actually have passive regen and 6% from Consecrated Ground itself, flat bonuses too like Vitality (which gets you over 1/10th of the way there by itself) potentially, I think 2k is a realistic number. I've had higher, and there's actually a reason to both INT and STR stack if you're going to go Inquisitor.

I already said it's pretty much a nerf for lowlife, but 200 es/sec is practically nothing either at that point.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

I'm liking the new ES regen, I play lots of life/ES melee Templars and that will be great. Sucks to lose the mana regen, but 15 did always seem a bit too much convenience.

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ribaldron wrote:

Fanaticism is "one charge per second, if you melee'd in the last second" - this sounds as if it is either permanent or has 80% uptime (at worst 4 up / 1 down) depending on how exactly it is calculated if you're melee. 75% More Attack Speed is incredible. If you're meleeing it should be basically permanent. It will be harder to utilize this as a self-caster due to the 1/sec limitation unless you're Shield Charging for instance, then it will likely still be spotty.

Unfortunately, Fanatacism doesn't give attack speed (unless there's been an update I missed?). Meaning this class no longer has an attack speed boost since they took the one off the consecrated ground line. Damn.

You're right. My bad. It's only spell bonuses if you've attacked.

I really don't know what that's for. Holy Flame totem.. Brands?

I don't feel there are enough buffs to make it work as an actual hybrid. Self casting AND self attacking seems self-defeating. Maybe in practice it will be better than I can foresee, but I think they were too conservative in providing bonuses to enable the playstyle they want to see. Might be quite good in PoE2, however, when you have access to more 6links.

I don't think the question is whether or not the buffs justify making an actual hybrid, the question is, why would you go through the trouble of making a real hybrid when you can easily get all the buffs by just using a movement skill from the opposite spectrum. I.E shieldcharge on a spellcaster or flamedash on a melee. I appreciate the intention GGG had with those nodes but given how generous the limitations are i doubt anyone will actually bother with making a real hybrid.

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ribaldron wrote:

Even using the LOW ESTIMATE you provided of 5% (which, by the way, is actually a lower number than the effect of actually standing in Consecrated Ground alone) you're at 300 HP/sec, or 300 ES/sec. 50% stronger than the previous bonus.

it doesnt work that way - or at least im not sure it does

my take on it is - possibly wrong - that if you have 5% life regen this one gives you 5% ES regen

and end value depends on your ES pool. to have 300ES/s you would need to have 6000 life AND ES

but, maybe, im wrong and it directly translates END regen value to ES regen. if so - then it is indeed a strict buff

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Baharoth15 wrote:

I don't think the question is whether or not the buffs justify making an actual hybrid, the question is, why would you go through the trouble of making a real hybrid when you can easily get all the buffs by just using a movement skill from the opposite spectrum. I.E shieldcharge on a spellcaster or flamedash on a melee. I appreciate the intention GGG had with those nodes but given how generous the limitations are i doubt anyone will actually bother with making a real hybrid.

This is an interesting argument, coming from someone who answered to "why would you bother building melee if other archetypes can skin the cat cheaper and faster" with "because melee is more fun".

Regardless of this working out or not, it's a good thing they're starting to recognize there's a certain number of players who want that kind of thing, who knew that putting more 'attack and cast speed' in the game won't hurt anything. These days you can build pretty decent attack-summon hybrids and it used to be a total gimp concept, so maybe this will become legit too one day. Been thinking of doing something with chains of command next league but now I want to give this a shot.