Leveling alt characters Boring+Burnout

This is a interesting post, i am someone that creates 2/3 characters per league since delve (when i stopped playing hardcore), and before delve when i only played hardcore i used to create probably 10-15 characters per league (never did the "high end" endgame thou), and i was fine with replaying the same 3 acts (there were 3 acts and 3 difficulties back then) a hundred times (every time i died).

So the thing is, how can we "bypass" the acts? Personally even if i could create a character already at level 70 i would still just play 3 characters per league. Because you stay "8 hours" in acts and hundred of hours in mappings, so i don't think that would really change much.

Another option is an "endless ledge" type of progression, where you receive the "quests skills points" and just chain through random generated maps until level 70. But i don't think that would make me create more than 3 characters per league either.

So what is the problem with the acts?I don't think it's the acts per se, i think it's in part something that someone already mentioned, there is no way to play your desired character since the beginning, most "build defining" uniques requires level 65+ to equip, while some gems require level 30+ to be used. Another important thing is that loot before act 6 sucks, you don't drop anything, so you just want to advance as quick as you can, since you feel you are not getting anything from it.


My idea then would be doing something to improve those shortcomings, for example:

1-waypoints could remain between characters(still blocked by quest progress), so progressing your second character would be less painful.

2- All skills gems/supports available for all classes since level 1. So you can play your desired character from the start. (balance as required).

3- Get rid of lab as a requirement, buff lab rewards for those who like to do it. (i am biased in this since i hate lab lol).

I think those changes would probably be beneficial to the overall enjoyment, while keeping whatever core design they wanted to achieve.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

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Tolerantzdestr0yer wrote:

I love reading your posts

Thanks honey. If I cared at all I'd tattoo that on a wall, but alas, I do not. On the same matter, what have you added to the conversation except stirring the pot? Boring.

People shouldn't be able to change their characters like they change their clothes. I have explained that the reason behind my stance is the same why I defend the death penalty. If you don't understand my perspective, in your words, that is not a me-problem, that is a you-problem.

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Sky7a wrote:

Let just hope the new campaign of poe will be shorter ... i sincerely doubt they will anytime remove the leveling throught act.

Even if it was the same length, it'd be some change from the usual. Will be fun to figure out good new routes and explore Wraeclast from a different side. :)

"On the same matter, what have you added to the conversation except stirring the pot? Boring."
funny you mentioning this, you rushed at page 100 to the defense of the death penality without reading anything and be like
no need to thank me, my job here is done!

"People shouldn't be able to change their characters like they change their clothes."

lets agree to disagree at this point, i think this static behavior of games is horrible

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ArtCrusade wrote:

If you don't want to level multiple characters then don't. Play one character only, that works too.

If you don't like leveling new characters every season, then don't play challenge leagues. Standard is there for a reason.

If you don't like going through acts but are too lazy to optimize your routing and preparation, then that's also a you-problem. No one should need 6-8 hours of playtime to get a new character to maps

Your proposal of skipping an integral part of the game, which is pre-leveling your character to access endgame just tells what kind of player you are.

It's a journey, start to finish. And every story starts somewhere. For PoE, that's level 1 and you should learn to deal with it.

Okay, boomer.

This whole post reeks of "I had it bad, you should too."

My boyfriend, whom I've been trying to get back into PoE, had quit for the same reasons. Going through act content is boring as hell after you've done it for the upteen-millionth time.

He's looking forward to PoE2, but I know he's going to burn out again after going through those acts after a couple times.

Technically, to eliminate the "boring" part of the tutorial, it shouldn't be that hard to make an extra option in character creation, unlocked say after killing sirius for the first time; characters created that way start at level 1 with -60% resistance penalty, all act quests completed except bandits, all known waypoints unlocked.

To not piss off those who like to be competitive in basically non-competitive game, those "fast-forward" characters can be excluded from the lvl100 ladder or just have some icon that allows to clearly identify them.

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dW2005 wrote:

Technically, to eliminate the "boring" part of the tutorial, it shouldn't be that hard to make an extra option in character creation, unlocked say after killing sirius for the first time; characters created that way start at level 1 with -60% resistance penalty, all act quests completed except bandits, all known waypoints unlocked.

To not piss off those who like to be competitive in basically non-competitive game, those "fast-forward" characters can be excluded from the lvl100 ladder or just have some icon that allows to clearly identify them.

I could buy into that, a "grey" solution between the black and white stances.

right now the only people who defend this waste of time (note: it is about Nth character, not first one) are people who.. have too much free time: uneployed, kids, people who are sick and unable to leave home for prolonged time (maybe add streamers into this group, for them it is their job anyway). aka people who can play (not stay logged it, play) for more than 2-3 hours a day, every day without affecting their other obligations. these 2-3 hours frequently being 5+..

for others re-leveling experience is.. pretty bad. POE pretty much is designed as a waste of time before you get your 'go to skill'. you have to pick the correct leveling skill because difference between skills is mind-boggling (i challenge anyone here who claims 'leveling is ok, l2p' to level with lightning tendrills or storm call. cmon!) so you are funnelled into the same few skills each run. after you get into 40s and finally have all your skills/supports - it start to ramp up and is passable. untill you realise that your build doesnt work without lets say devouring diadem or 4 ascendancies.

till you get these you are basically wasting your time. it is fun for first 1-N times but any time after that.. you do everything to cut the time and be done with it (leveling and then regret-orbing.. cool story, will you give me 70 regrets i need to switch from leveling as zerker bladestorm so I can play BV chieftain?

and the worst part is - the power of your character during leveling DOES NOT indicate its end-game potential. so most players fu.. up their characters and end up with duds that are beyond saving despite them making no clear mistakes on the road (game allowed them to complete all the content, kill kitava and the build is still crap).

game that does that is obliged to give easy respec option, to respect players time

because no easy respec - we have the meta and wildly popular guides resulting in 90% of a given skill having EXACTLY the same setup/gear. diveristy.. all because of no easy respec and boring as hell re-leveling

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sidtherat wrote:

right now the only people who defend this waste of time (note: it is about Nth character, not first one) are people who.. have too much free time: uneployed, kids, people who are sick and unable to leave home for prolonged time (maybe add streamers into this group, for them it is their job anyway). aka people who can play (not stay logged it, play) for more than 2-3 hours a day, every day without affecting their other obligations. these 2-3 hours frequently being 5+..

Complete nonsense as usual. I am working 40-50 hours per week and have other obligations to take care of and I don't mind the leveling process simply because it's a part of the game. And don't come at me with "it's repetitive" the whole fucking game is repetitive. You run maps to run even more maps. There is not a single component about this game that isn't repetitive. If you don't like that you'll have to go and find a different game.

PS: if you want to be able to respec at will so that your choices don't matter, there is a game that offers exactly that, it's called D3. And it actually got a lot of backlash because of it. If you can just respec at will for no cost then build choices become irrelevant.

i admire your will to follow me and comment on everything i say, its weird but.. ok, i guess

i would suggest one thing tho - read it once again. youll notice i have nothing against endgame that is repetitive (because it isnt, at least not the endgame i play - till level 92-93 and reroll), i do not even mind leveling 'as' (if it is possible). sadly most builds (because POE is bloated with mechanics to the bursting point) 'click' at around 65-70 (and some even later, heck some uniques are 75-80. divine ire igniting totems do not work till Stormfire (lvl 80!) and you have to slog somehow till then


POEs leveling structure is terrible and as such there should be shortcuts. bruteforcing it and wasting 8 hours of ones life is not a solution.

you might enjoy the bruteforcing aspect, or you simply havent reached the number of characters that make you puke the moment you think about creating new one. i have, many have. those who did not leave have adopted Path of Twink and slog on.

side note - leveling new char every ~week or so makes you admire the quality of first 3-4 acts and the lack of 'it' in the following 6..


ofc there is a cost to 'free' respecing - your TIME. it takes HOURS to respec high level character into another one. unless you are ok with white maps and optimisation doesnt matter. but if it does - it takes HOURS because most of your gear has to change and crafting new tree takes time as well. even in D3 it takes time to switch (im not talking about amateurish switching runes at random) from one crafted build to another (and you cannot actually do that quickly anymore because you need to self-find correct gear you miss)

it is still less time (and it is actually fun crafting something new) than slogging trough the same tutorial (that teaches you very little btw)

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sidtherat wrote:

and the worst part is - the power of your character during leveling DOES NOT indicate its end-game potential. so most players fu.. up their characters and end up with duds that are beyond saving despite them making no clear mistakes on the road (game allowed them to complete all the content, kill kitava and the build is still crap).

One could argue that this is more of a clear example of GGG's attempts at trying to keep up with powercreep seeing as most of the power creep mechanics dont really manifest until you are deep into mapping. (thanks to layered rng and mechanic bloat).

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sidtherat wrote:

game that does that is obliged to give easy respec option, to respect players time

personally i am torn on this. On one hand I do agree that it hurts when you fuck a character hard.

On the other if you make respecing easy then you start to erode any sense of investment in builds.

This is what happened in D3 and the result was the acceleration of finding the optimal build as people could fuck around with skills until they found the best combo.

So where in poe making a new character can be dull or tedious.. making a new character of a class you already played in d3 was pointless.

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because no easy respec - we have the meta and wildly popular guides resulting in 90% of a given skill having EXACTLY the same setup/gear. diveristy.. all because of no easy respec and boring as hell re-leveling

But this was inevitable. Every game with multiplayer develops a meta. If anything the real issue is that the current core meta of poe is stale.

What is the meta, stack enough ehp to not get one shot be able to clear the whole screen multiple times a second.
That is every meta build in the game.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

game that does that is obliged to give easy respec option, to respect players time

personally i am torn on this. On one hand I do agree that it hurts when you fuck a character hard.

On the other if you make respecing easy then you start to erode any sense of investment in builds.

This is what happened in D3 and the result was the acceleration of finding the optimal build as people could fuck around with skills until they found the best combo.

So where in poe making a new character can be dull or tedious.. making a new character of a class you already played in d3 was pointless.

i might have a rose-tinted memories of d3 (last played: 2019) but.. toying with runes was one thing - picking skill combo that you wanted to pursue, cube contents etc, was different matter entirely

rune changes == support gem changes. difference is - most D3 runes are at least 'ok'. in POE most skills have ONE proper support gem setup and you are new if you are trying to be smart and pick something else. smart doesnt work in POE. runes in D3 were more in line and you pick them based on how the playstyle feels and flows

but if you want to switch character around you need to adjust gear as well and that takes time (in D3). i distinctly remember building few separate monks (via respecs and power-leveling 1-70 with a friend) because these chars were too different to try and change one into antoher on the fly

maybe D3 changed once again but i do not remember it being THAT easy to switch (properly) char A into char B. cube, trinkets, maybe target unique or two - these had to change and good luck finding them in your stash on demand..

on the other hand you could TRY how the build FEELS to play (but without going for full power). and that is a major plus in my book.

right now i have two duds on my hand: lvl 92 Storm Caller and lvl 93 Lightning Tendrills+CWC+Arc characters. both are rather heavily invested (awakened spell cascade etc) and both are terrible unplayable garbage

nothing during leveling even hinted at these two skills being bad choices. imagine Joe Newplayer whom you invited to try this game, and two weeks after he quits because his Elementalist Stormcaller cannot kill shit, cannot take hit and respecing it costs 100 regrets.. pretty damn good way for a game to score -1 on player retention