Time to update CoC to match spellslinger

The only way to really benefit from coc is if you have the actual spells proc from another source, like cospris. You need the base attack and coc,
then some crit, speed, fortify, infused channeling, or maybe you want to combust targets with some fire side spell... 6L gone instantly.

Filled with so many options you got no room to focus on the actual main spells you want with all their support. Meanwhile you can run 100 spells on spellslingers that;
1) don't require crits
2) don't require hits
3) don't require melee range and they proc 100% every time
you just attack with anything in that general direction.

How is that fair compared to the effort in making coc work even slightly?

CoC needs to be changed to work like spellslinger.
Doesn't matter what attacks you got or where or when you use them,
when your attacks crit, coc procs the spells linked to itself.

"Oh no it's too op" you gonna do what?
You got a fast attack with high crit in a glove, ok... what's left?
3-3-4-4-6 link slots. You want to be a clusterfucktornado with 20 unsupported spells? Melts your pc, doesn't clear shit, grats.
You need auras, cwdt, mobility, utility, vaal gems... you have very little extra slots to spare and need to focus supports on a main skill to get high dps.

The only real problem and difference between SS is that Coc has that 0.15 cooldown. Another bad design since it kills all slow crit builds. Go turbo mode or don't even try to go Coc. No room for a heavy hitting slow crit build, it's all about the speed and "peepees" Procs Per Sec.

Yes I remember when Coc was NOT 100% proc on crit, and now it's much better, but it's still far from hitting its real potential.

It could and should be more accessible.
Allow the use for slower builds, and add bonus dmg, maybe like stored seals.
Basically, fast crit builds have 6 spell pps. Slow builds only 1 spell pps or even less, but every 0.5 sec the coc gem gets a internal seal stack that has a certain cap (which can be raised?) and when you crit, you gain that stored bonus dmg. There fixed, works with any speed crit build now. Balance it.

If you want to further balance it, give it a "x% less dmg for every Coc gem you have equipped" so people don't do any absurd exploit builds.

Or you can change the proc rate based on gem/char lvl req/quality.
Start at 1.00 with a max cap at 0.15? And lower the gem lvl req to 24.

I mean come on guys, you're smarter and more creative than me, are you not?

CoC and Spellslinger need to go forever, for the good sake of this game.

We need some items like Cospri’s Malice added for fire and lightning spells, so cold doesn’t feel like the only viable option (unless you’re combining CoC and spellslinger or poet’s pen, I guess). These new uniques should be relatively rare and expensive, like Cospri’s.

Then nerf CoC Support somewhat.

Then nerf Spellslinger Support significantly.

Alternatively, buff manual casting in some fashion, because there’s really no point in NOT autocasting everything. Support spells, fine, but triggering main dps spells should have some drawback - even if it’s ultimately the best way to play as a caster, it should be a significant investment.

We all know what GGG will ACTUALLY do is make Cospri’s “cast socketed spells on crit” mod, and the “cast on hit” mods from Poet’s and Mjolnir, into craftable mods on rares. Then nerf melee and ranger survival.

That feel when people ask for CoC buffs when you play crap like
Well to be fair the recent update to 50% instead of 30% was a huge boost

Spellslinger has reservation and the base trigger rate is not high.

Since skill synergies/combos have existed, trigger have always been a favoured way to use them with 1 button. Perhaps these combos should be looked at instead. Bladeblast already got consideration when they decided 50% less blades on non-self cast.

It sounds like your issue with CoC is the variety of spells to choose from and the ways to play is limited?

Now being complemented by Spellslinger, crafted "Trigger socketed spells...", or other triggering uniques such Asenath's Chant, I don't necessary need Cospri's Malice or Mjolnir anymore. For example, I could use Spellslinger to trigger Frostbolt and then CoC to trigger Ice Nova.

If your issue is DPS then it's either I got my estimations on my Excel sheet all wrong or CoC is better in all cases against pure spellslingers and self-casters.

Spellslingers could only trigger up to 3 times a second while typically CoC could get 7. Each spell on Spellslinger reserves 20% of your mana and this increases as you slap a few support gems. Spellslinger itself is a deadlink so you are already locked to 5L per skill at most (not counting pseudo links such as Lesser Poison on Dendrobate). It will be hard to activate more than 3 different spells at once unless we are not supporting the spells with any support gems. Furthermore, we already sacrificed much by not having enough unreserved mana for auras. On the other hand, CoC gets to use Spellslinger to supplement it and making it better playstyle, such as auto-casting Wave of Conviction, Frost Bomb, and curses.

You can't "trigger off 500 things at a time" because cooldown if you hit into 500 things with one CoC attack itll trigger 1 or maybe 2-3 times due to projectile speed/whatever pseudo-duration. And any interaction with 500 things at a time (a generic aoe) is going to have similar performance problems
For example nature's reprisal: I faced some poison prolif lag when I do dense packs like 3 batches of the vivid monsters that spawn more parasite dudes when they die, since every mob I poisoned is going to poison mobs in an area around them, soon there will be like 10 mobs dying and each trying to poison like another 10+ mobs and so on.

Both CoC and SS are very tame for server performance. It may look bad since like 10 triggers a second can lower your fps but it isn't that much stuff going on.

Its not even remotely close to what fractured used to do since it straight up multiplied the number of things going on by like 3+ (or worse, like frenzy on ally death number of allies squared/2)

Seems most of reasons for CoC/SS leaving is automation being terrible for the game. CoCing and SSing are still things you have to do manually, like use a wand attack. And it really only automates combo skills/movement skills because you can do the same just by holding down 1 key too.

cocs/spellslinger bring NOTHING good to the game

there is a reason why significant portion of spellcasters are in fact cocs/spellslinger

- they are CHEAPER to setup, gear and play than self-cast (first issue: they make self-cast objectively worse choise)
- they are MUCH easier to play. one action (cycloning into a pack or frenzy-attack somewhere) does EVERYTHING for you: damage, utility, sometimes even movement if you are brave enough
- they circumvent game mechanics: mana management is reduced to 'can i sustain 3mana/cast cyclone', hitting (spellslinger) is not required at all

- server strain (however i cannot see it being much bigger than with selfcast doing the same stuff)

GGG adding spellslinger (for some romantic idea of attack+spell combo that proved to be a disfunctional meme) pretty much killed any form of self-casting except archmage. so you have:

- cocs casters
- spellslinger casters
- archmage casters (pretty much 3 lightning based spells)

any other choice is a noob trap, objectively worse than these three.

'build diversity'. each addition GGG makes reduces that diversity

name me a reason why play ED/Cont. when i can play chaos-slinger that does ED/CD but MUCH better?

balance-wise and gamedesign-wise cocs/slinger are degenerative options that need to go or at least need a SEVERE nerf (like: why triggered spells cost no mana? like WTF?)

"

sidtherat wrote:

cocs/spellslinger bring NOTHING good to the game

there is a reason why significant portion of spellcasters are in fact cocs/spellslinger

- they are CHEAPER to setup, gear and play than self-cast (first issue: they make self-cast objectively worse choise)
- they are MUCH easier to play. one action (cycloning into a pack or frenzy-attack somewhere) does EVERYTHING for you: damage, utility, sometimes even movement if you are brave enough
- they circumvent game mechanics: mana management is reduced to 'can i sustain 3mana/cast cyclone', hitting (spellslinger) is not required at all

- server strain (however i cannot see it being much bigger than with selfcast doing the same stuff)

GGG adding spellslinger (for some romantic idea of attack+spell combo that proved to be a disfunctional meme) pretty much killed any form of self-casting except archmage. so you have:

- cocs casters
- spellslinger casters
- archmage casters (pretty much 3 lightning based spells)

any other choice is a noob trap, objectively worse than these three.

'build diversity'. each addition GGG makes reduces that diversity

name me a reason why play ED/Cont. when i can play chaos-slinger that does ED/CD but MUCH better?

balance-wise and gamedesign-wise cocs/slinger are degenerative options that need to go or at least need a SEVERE nerf (like: why triggered spells cost no mana? like WTF?)

sadly true

"

sidtherat wrote:

why triggered spells cost no mana?

I like the idea of having slinger spells cost mana instead of reserving anything. Would make it more interesting, but eventually just skyrocket thief ring or other -8 mana cost items super high

by triggers having mana cost i meant something more substantial than 5 mana per trigger or something

my current self-cast supreme-ego glacial cascade (meme, not worth it) build uses 108 mana/cast..

trigger builds needing EXACTLY zero investment into mana besides one -mana cost craft on one piece of jewelry is beyond stupid and wont be 'ok' unless that cost is in 50+ territory. PER TRIGGER.

until thats the case, trigger builds are objectively better because all these passives/affixes self-caster has to WASTE on mana, trigger builds uses for crit multi, next cluster jewel or %life

oh. and ofc mana reservation for spellslinger stays..