[3.11] 30M+ dps COC Penance Brand Necromancer (All content viable except Atziri)

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Butsicles wrote:
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reciprocate wrote:
How necessary is Awakened Spell Cascade for the build? I figure with it spawning corpses and VD balls on the side of the spawn it makes getting the 200% attack/cast speed from corpse pact easier. But is it a must have for the build if going budget at first or is regular spell cascade enough to do the job even at end game?


It's not necessary for barrage. For rain of arrows though, not having awakened spell cascade slows your ramp if your bow aps is <= 1.6 (what I have atm). There's some weird targeting that goes on with spell cascade which does not guarantee 9 corpses (it's more like 7.5) per trigger, and awakened spell cascade cleans up the AI by effectively increasing the area that corpses can pop in. I've tested it and there are a decent number of breakpoints depending on which skill you use. Barrage can hit 200% extremely easily though even with regular spell cascade, and NO vd helm enchant. The only reason I use both is so RoA feels absolutely amazing for maps, but it will feel pretty damn good regardless since we're never really reaching the aps/cast speed cap in maps and bosses pop anyways.


Good to know, I did a Bow CoC VD style build last league and it was a bit weird getting breakpoints right with the right skill. Since it was mainly fire I even went with blast rain since it drops fire pen even more but it much slower and less consistent in CoC than barrage or even rain of arrows from my experience.

I'm running a dual poet's pen spellslinger version of this build at the moment. I think I should be ok to hit the 200% attack/cast speed cap from Corpse Pact with a Barrage+Faster Attacks combo.
Sounds good to me. Apologies for not getting back to you earlier, I'll whip up something in pob tonight just to see general numbers, etc. on a spellsinger penance version
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Butsicles wrote:
Sounds good to me. Apologies for not getting back to you earlier, I'll whip up something in pob tonight just to see general numbers, etc. on a spellsinger penance version


Looking forward to it.

Quick question, would it be better to replace one of the DPS support gems like hypothermia or inspiration (I don't use inspiration since it doesn't proc with spellslinger) with Elemental Focus? Corpse Pact already gives a default chill and shock so not sure if the shock brought forth from penance brand would be stronger than without Ele Focus+Corpse Pact shock. Crits from VD would trigger ignite so having sadist fully operational to give all the 3 damage buffs should be viable even with Ele Focus on Penance Brand.
Last edited by reciprocate on Jul 28, 2020, 6:42:29 PM
Ele focus is definitely possible, but penance brand hits so hard you essentially get shock cap versus sirus with good enough gear (15% vs 50% increased damage taken). At the high end it's definitely not desired but at the lower end ele focus should be fine.

I've put a slightly ghetto version of a spellslinger version (w/o Poet's pen). Poet's pen is super tricky to work around since you actually don't want two (it screws up with reaching spell/cast speed cap because of the way spells proc on poets, where it alternates per weapon per attack), and one poet's pen is quite a bit worse than just having a decent wand, and putting both desecrate and vd on spellslinger.
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Butsicles wrote:
Ele focus is definitely possible, but penance brand hits so hard you essentially get shock cap versus sirus with good enough gear (15% vs 50% increased damage taken). At the high end it's definitely not desired but at the lower end ele focus should be fine.

I've put a slightly ghetto version of a spellslinger version (w/o Poet's pen). Poet's pen is super tricky to work around since you actually don't want two (it screws up with reaching spell/cast speed cap because of the way spells proc on poets, where it alternates per weapon per attack), and one poet's pen is quite a bit worse than just having a decent wand, and putting both desecrate and vd on spellslinger.


It's slower than Spellslinger/Poet's Pen or CoC, but what about just having Trigger Socketed Spells on Skill use for the rare wand to stick Desecrate+VD in? Probably too slow due to the internal cooldown of 4sec. I'm sticking with PP's for stuff like WoC, Curse, VD+Des but will probably replace one of them for a rare trigger wand to stick WoC+Curse+Offering later on.

The main issue with going CoC is getting enough accuracy in doing so. Attack speed and crit should still be easier to obtain. I ran a mess of an assassin last league with dual PP+Spellslinger+CoC Bladefall Bladeblast Avatar of Fire char, he was squishy but did red maps decently well. It's just balancing out his stats like getting enough attack speed, accuracy, and even weapon crit for CoC was a huge pain in the ass due to itemization and lack of harvest crafting back in Delirium league.

Looking through your rough/scuffed PoB for spellslinger version, there's no Bone Offering either meaning that character is basically running at 50/16 block at best case situation. Nowhere to put it either lowering the chance of survivability/EHP by not hitting cap, and putting it in spellslinger setup won't work since that can't be feasible without sacrificing something else(VD maybe?) due to mana and reservation. But turning the rare wand to have trigger and sticking Offering+WoC+Curse(probably in that order) would solve some issues. I think dual wands is probably best overall option (whether dual rare wands or one PP+Rare wand) for a spellslinger variant.
Last edited by reciprocate on Jul 29, 2020, 2:20:04 AM
Hey, I have a couple more questions. I tried to contact you ingame but you were offline.

I got a timeless jewel with just 9 seed value different from yours. I'm guessing i got the right node which is over leech and applying to ES too(Immortal Ambition). I'd like to know the two other nodes being affected, as I'm getting chaos damage%(Revitalizing Darkness) and +7 life on block and +5% block chance (Blood Quenched bulwark)
My question is are these nodes needed and are the nodes I'm getting correct

My other question is how do you get that much crit chance on barrage/ROA,(or does roa/barrage crit chance dont matter? im guessing it needs to crit to proc the brand skill right?) i don't see any crit chance mods on gear or tree(apart from spike point quiver)
I can post my POB here if you'd like to have a quick look. Build is still in the process missing some gears. https://pastebin.com/J8mn66sX
Last edited by Pyrestead on Jul 29, 2020, 8:02:42 AM
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Pyrestead wrote:
Hey, I have a couple more questions. I tried to contact you ingame but you were offline.

I got a timeless jewel with just 9 seed value different from yours. I'm guessing i got the right node which is over leech and applying to ES too(Immortal Ambition). I'd like to know the two other nodes being affected, as I'm getting chaos damage%(Revitalizing Darkness) and +7 life on block and +5% block chance (Blood Quenched bulwark)
My question is are these nodes needed and are the nodes I'm getting correct

My other question is how do you get that much crit chance on barrage/ROA,(or does roa/barrage crit chance dont matter? im guessing it needs to crit to proc the brand skill right?) i don't see any crit chance mods on gear or tree(apart from spike point quiver)
I can post my POB here if you'd like to have a quick look. Build is still in the process missing some gears. https://pastebin.com/J8mn66sX


There's a certain focus on global crit mods: quiver, 100% inc crit chance from consecrated ground, inspiration, power charges, plus flat additive crit from body armour and bottled faith. Add all of those up and it's possible to get around 70%+ crit chance with barrage. But top priority for any CoC build is generally accuracy first, then crit, then attack speed but to the point of just of to the breakpoint.
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There's a certain focus on global crit mods: quiver, 100% inc crit chance from consecrated ground, inspiration, power charges, plus flat additive crit from body armour and bottled faith. Add all of those up and it's possible to get around 70%+ crit chance with barrage. But top priority for any CoC build is generally accuracy first, then crit, then attack speed but to the point of just of to the breakpoint.


chance to hit/evasive monster are 92% and 86% is it necessary to push to 100%? I havent really played coc builds before.
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Pyrestead wrote:
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There's a certain focus on global crit mods: quiver, 100% inc crit chance from consecrated ground, inspiration, power charges, plus flat additive crit from body armour and bottled faith. Add all of those up and it's possible to get around 70%+ crit chance with barrage. But top priority for any CoC build is generally accuracy first, then crit, then attack speed but to the point of just of to the breakpoint.


chance to hit/evasive monster are 92% and 86% is it necessary to push to 100%? I havent really played coc builds before.


The higher level you get, the harder it gets to 100%. I'd say the safe amount by the time you're low to mid 90's is probably around 95% hit.
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reciprocate wrote:
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Butsicles wrote:
Ele focus is definitely possible, but penance brand hits so hard you essentially get shock cap versus sirus with good enough gear (15% vs 50% increased damage taken). At the high end it's definitely not desired but at the lower end ele focus should be fine.

I've put a slightly ghetto version of a spellslinger version (w/o Poet's pen). Poet's pen is super tricky to work around since you actually don't want two (it screws up with reaching spell/cast speed cap because of the way spells proc on poets, where it alternates per weapon per attack), and one poet's pen is quite a bit worse than just having a decent wand, and putting both desecrate and vd on spellslinger.


It's slower than Spellslinger/Poet's Pen or CoC, but what about just having Trigger Socketed Spells on Skill use for the rare wand to stick Desecrate+VD in? Probably too slow due to the internal cooldown of 4sec. I'm sticking with PP's for stuff like WoC, Curse, VD+Des but will probably replace one of them for a rare trigger wand to stick WoC+Curse+Offering later on.

The main issue with going CoC is getting enough accuracy in doing so. Attack speed and crit should still be easier to obtain. I ran a mess of an assassin last league with dual PP+Spellslinger+CoC Bladefall Bladeblast Avatar of Fire char, he was squishy but did red maps decently well. It's just balancing out his stats like getting enough attack speed, accuracy, and even weapon crit for CoC was a huge pain in the ass due to itemization and lack of harvest crafting back in Delirium league.

Looking through your rough/scuffed PoB for spellslinger version, there's no Bone Offering either meaning that character is basically running at 50/16 block at best case situation. Nowhere to put it either lowering the chance of survivability/EHP by not hitting cap, and putting it in spellslinger setup won't work since that can't be feasible without sacrificing something else(VD maybe?) due to mana and reservation. But turning the rare wand to have trigger and sticking Offering+WoC+Curse(probably in that order) would solve some issues. I think dual wands is probably best overall option (whether dual rare wands or one PP+Rare wand) for a spellslinger variant.


Thanks for catching that. I thought I put the generic VD/DD combo of bone offering/wave/conductivity in the wand with trigger but I must have screwed up somewhere.

I definitely think dual wand or wand/shield is dependent on how offensive you want to be (since you can get close to block cap regardless of either method), it's just that shield gives you a bit of life, and possibly some interesting influence mods you could use (e.g. inc damage per block, life on block, etc.)

However I'm still not quite convinced on poet's pen being decent on dw, since you're attacking with poet's pen once every two attacks, so linking two spells on a poet's pen while dual wielding wands will cause each spell to trigger every two attacks each (making it really difficult to reach the attack cast speed limit, if those two spells are desecrate + vd). And in terms of casting utility spells, trigger socketed has a low enough cd (4s) that a rare wand suffices as the triggering mechanism.

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