Speculation - New passives. How does it work?

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Thror2k5 wrote:

the problem is the initial investment cost.

you spend 2 travel points, plus a point on a jewel socket. before you even get to the new node.

3 invested points, for practically nothing.

Lets say we want overshock, as a witch. The most likely jewel socket we're going to be close to is by essence surge. the 2 travel points to that socket give 4% mana each. AKA NOTHING.

so we invest 3 passives to slot the jewel. Now we spend SEVEN more to get to overshock. 10 points total gets us:

8% mana. 102% lightning damage. 30% increased shock effect.


Alternatively, Breath of lightning + Heart of thunder, plus a travel point, gives us:

142% lightning damage. 35% shock effect. shock chance. lightning pen. lightning damage leech.


Touch of cruelty is even worse. There is PLENTY of damage on the tree already, and the ones shown are not competitive.


Now, if theres a medium life jewel that doesnt suck, it'll definitely find a home for classes that cant get Constitution. Hopefully other nodes like +max res exist (better than the small one we've seen).

Even then, the use would be for tree efficeny or extra life. It likely wouldnt dramatically change trees or builds.

I think some of these notables have to be really good or enable specific builds.

Like for example, Chaos damage doesnt bypass energy shield, or extra projectiles or totems, extra Specters, extra curses, or multiple offerings work at the same time.

Stuff that sounds OP at a glance, but when you consider what is "lost" in the amount points sacrificed, maybe its worth it.

You're failing to understand what this can do for a build. Right now we see all the cool toys level 100 can reach us, but sometimes we have to drive pretty far to get the latest and greatest gizmo. GGG has just said there is an entire 3/4 of the tree added, exactly what you want exactly where you want it. It may take a bit of an investment, but so does everything else.

Plus, it is GGG's style to announce said new toy and let the community rant and rave at how unfair and worthless it will be because of xyz. Patch notes come out and xyz got massive buffs/nerfs making you want the new toy like a 6 year old at Christmas. I'm about 90% sure the small nodes leading to the outer jewels will get buffed (not that they need to imo) or something will be done to grant us 1 extra passive to play with.

You get someting new but actually u didt get something new hehe! As far i know poe history the more thing they add the more thing they will nerf. The new jewel is just another version of timeless jewel

I'm reading a lot of these complaints basically as "I don't know how to make this new system work, therefore it is going to be useless"

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Nubman wrote:

I'm reading a lot of these complaints basically as "I don't know how to make this new system work, therefore it is going to be useless"

That isnt true at all. we KNOW how the system works. obtain jewel. socket jewel. obtain new passive cluster.

The previews have shown us a very limited selection of passive clusters. Looking at them, we ask "what build would want this", and then evaluate vs what we can get on the tree.

Overshock. Well, if im playing Arc, this COULD be a good dps node. Then we compare it to what we already have, and discover it is WORSE than what already exists on the tree.

So we scratch this node off for arc witch. Maybe..... Lightning Arrow?? That puts us in a very different place on the tree. I, personally, dont know enough about lightning arrow builds to say IF they want this or not. But im afraid that it is still worse than what a LA build could take on the current tree.

The same is true for ALL of the jewel nodes shown. They are approx 2 passive points too expensive compared to current tree nodes.


Obviously there are a TON of them that we havent seen. but the 8? we have, are underpowered compared to current tree nodes, and dont do anything to create a new build.

I'm totally with Thor2k5 here, from what i've seen, the new passives from the cluster jewels are not much better, or better at all, from the passives we already have on the tree.

This is a big problem, because the sockets and the outer edge of the tree are *VERY* expensive, They all cost 3 passives with some of the worst node benefits that exist. Spending 3 passives to unlock a jewel socket and then get nothing with that socket itself is just a massive character resource cost..... a cost that the new passives from the clusters do not seem balanced towards offsetting.

This seems to be a repeated blind spot for GGG. We see it in their unique item design all the time... where they come up with a realy cool unique item effect, and then balance it by putting in a big drawback. And if you just looked at the item as something that you could just enable, the powerful unique effect and the drawback tends to look fair and reasonable.... until you ALSO then add in the character cost of using up that equipment slot, and suddenly the item is trash-tier in most cases. This feels very similar.

In fairness, there will probably turn out to be some very narrow notables that are worth building around, and if powerful life clusters can be added that will also probably be welcome for builds in areas of the tree that have poor access to the constitution wheel - but for most people just looking to add something cool and neat to their characters, these are looking very unlikely to ever be worth using.

Why do people keep calling these jewel sockets "very expensive " to get to? They are literally 1 extra point compared to any other jewel socket, except they have a mod that isn't just 10 to int/dex/str.

Look at it this way, for everyone saying they aren't "way better than current options";

- if they were way better than the current tree, then the current tree would lose its value, then everyone would complain that the current tree needs to be buffed to compete with the jewels, and that "we all need to make cluster jewel trees now to be competitive "
- you can get any node from any part of the sltree. I don't know if the complainers have realised this, but along with allowing way more build diversity, it also CUTS DOWN on travel nodes. Want to build a ranger/duelist/marauders that focuses more on spells? Now you don't need to travel all the way up to the top of the tree to get some decent nodes for element clusters. Same goes for any play style that each class isn't "supposed " to play
- as a few people have said, these are just basic showcases. What if a rare jewel makes each minor node give your build 2-3 things that your build wants, on every node? They might, or they might not. No point in crying when you have 1/100 parts of the whole picture.

When I saw the cry wolf teaser on reddit the league was fucking over for me already.

I am not a cry wolf, I am a laughing hyena. And the nodes are shit.




Are they really expecting someone to give up a crit wheel AND a lifewheel skillpointwise for this lol?

Chris: Welcome to GGG new developer, I want you to build more interesting tree and node combinations.

New dev: Great I can add in new combinations and powers and make it really interesting.

Chris: Whoa whoa whoa, tone it down killer. I just want you to make it look customizable, not make anything new or stronger. Just make them waste some points for subpar rewards.

I think you're all severely underestimating the new Cluster Jewels. Just how good they are will depend on number of Affix/suffix modifier's on a jewel and how good the notable's/keystone's are.

We know for a fact you can have atleast 4 explicit mods, however 6 is logical and here's why - It appears Suffix's are notable passives/jewel sockets and Affix's are small passive modifier's. From ZiggyD's video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-Dz0qvuM0g&feature=youtu.be&t=192
we can see a Cluster Jewel with 2 suffix/2 affix, but we also see there are cluster Jewel's with 3 notable's meaning 3 suffix so there would have to be 3 affix.

So lets take a Ranger as an example and use the Jewel socket to the south of the Ranger starting location. With a 8 Passive Jewel that gives 27 Ev, 6 flat life, 3% life and 5% lighting res from small passives, Peak vigour, a Jewel socket and Devastator. Then a Keystone socketed in the jewel socket.

From those 12 points used you get 16% evasion, 135 Flat evasion, 30 life, 23% life, 25% Lighting res, 30% att dmg, the explody mod and any of the new keystone's which could be as build defining as CI.

Now this is just a rough example, but with 280 new notable's some of them may be very good and the equivalent of what you'd previously of needed to travel across the entire tree to get.

What we've seen so far is the equivalent of a magic weapon with bad mod rolls, not a mirror tier rare jewelled foil.