Reflect damage? Anything else i need to know? Is there a list of bosses/mobs with it? Remove it!!

I know very well that reflect was even worse before and they did a great step forward reworking it. And I'm still staying behind my opinion that this particular monster is a bad game design. I build my character around survivability putting roughly 80% of my skill points in life, armour, regen, damage reduction etc. if I as a player should be punished in some way for my choices it should be in a way that makes the fight longer or having a rough time getting past the monster's defenses like regen or es or something like that, not getting oneshotted. And vice versa if I'm building glass cannon, I can be then punished by getting oneshotted if i let something touch me and that would be ok.

Stopped playing hardcore because of reflect.

I just want to play a game.
Not read an essay of mods on a map before i go in there.

Vaaling a T16 map can gives you a list of mods on the map wich is fine.
But sometimes i read over the reflect thing.

I know its 100% my own fault for not reading.
But dying instantly without any chance of responding because i din't read a little line on a map is what makes a fast paced hack and slash game great these days i guess.

Also when people say it was worse in the past. That argument is invalid.
There are a lot of things a lot worse in the past. Does not meen its good now...

When i have a real tanky and slow character one shotting himself against a reflect mob there just is something wrong with the mechanic.

Forcing people into certain skills or items just so they don't have to carefully read everything all the time is just dumb.

And people saying that dying is a pleasure in hardcore have not played it obviously.

Sweating your pants of when you get low life and safe yourself with your mechanical skills just feels more like a game i want to play.

I died in a lot of different ways that was my own fault.
And relfect is one of them.

But i created a post about reflect and not the other ones because i think it does not belong in this game as it is now.

"

DaaPoE wrote:

Stopped playing hardcore because of reflect.

I just want to play a game.
Not read an essay of mods on a map before i go in there.

Vaaling a T16 map can gives you a list of mods on the map wich is fine.
But sometimes i read over the reflect thing.

I know its 100% my own fault for not reading.
But dying instantly without any chance of responding because i din't read a little line on a map is what makes a fast paced hack and slash game great these days i guess.

Also when people say it was worse in the past. That argument is invalid.
There are a lot of things a lot worse in the past. Does not meen its good now...

When i have a real tanky and slow character one shotting himself against a reflect mob there just is something wrong with the mechanic.

Forcing people into certain skills or items just so they don't have to carefully read everything all the time is just dumb.

And people saying that dying is a pleasure in hardcore have not played it obviously.

Sweating your pants of when you get low life and safe yourself with your mechanical skills just feels more like a game i want to play.

I died in a lot of different ways that was my own fault.
And relfect is one of them.

But i created a post about reflect and not the other ones because i think it does not belong in this game as it is now.

then that kind of thread / post would belong in the feedback section of the forum.
GGG made a design choice and reflect is one of them. :=)

"

DaaPoE wrote:

Stopped playing hardcore because of reflect.

I just want to play a game.
Not read an essay of mods on a map before i go in there.

Vaaling a T16 map can gives you a list of mods on the map wich is fine.
But sometimes i read over the reflect thing.

I know its 100% my own fault for not reading.
But dying instantly without any chance of responding because i din't read a little line on a map is what makes a fast paced hack and slash game great these days i guess.

Also when people say it was worse in the past. That argument is invalid.
There are a lot of things a lot worse in the past. Does not meen its good now...

When i have a real tanky and slow character one shotting himself against a reflect mob there just is something wrong with the mechanic.

Forcing people into certain skills or items just so they don't have to carefully read everything all the time is just dumb.

And people saying that dying is a pleasure in hardcore have not played it obviously.

Sweating your pants of when you get low life and safe yourself with your mechanical skills just feels more like a game i want to play.

I died in a lot of different ways that was my own fault.
And relfect is one of them.

But i created a post about reflect and not the other ones because i think it does not belong in this game as it is now.

Are you STILL complaining about reflect?
Jesus Christ, roll sextants for the "cannot take reflected damage" mod.
Or play a build that doesn't care about reflect, like ED/Contagion or any DOT build.
Or don't do the Racecourse map, it's really that simple to avoid.

Just don't forget about the reflect guy in Lab. rofl.

yea dude, why do you want damage reflect to be removed from the game, when you can simply remove it from the game?
if you see damage reflect on a map, simply remove damage reflect by re-rolling with chaos orbs, or simply remove damage reflect with sextants on watchstones

it would be really, really silly to remove damage reflect from the game, because how would you be able to remove something yourself which isn't there in the first place?

can u imagine alching a map and not seeing damage reflect as a mod and then you wouldn't have to reroll with a chaos orb? how silly would that be?

i love paying taxes, everyone loves paying taxes

so if you don't want to play a build, that you don't want to play, then pay taxes by spamming chaos orbs and sextants, til you remove damage reflect from the game, its really simple

everyone knows the #1 countermechanic to damage reflect is to remove it from the game, so why don't you just do that yourself every time?

or simply play a build, you don't want to play, just so you don't have to deal with reflect

it's seriously fucking simple, my dude, why do you even complain?

I don't feel passionately about this, but to me, it is way past time to remove all reflect mechanics from the game.

So far as map mods go, you either do not take reflected damage and it's a non-issue, or you take reflected damage and you simply can't do it. There is no grey area, which makes it uninteresting. The only time when it has any impact at all is when a player ACCIDENTALLY opens the wrong map with a map mod that essentially says "If you hit a monster in this map you are dead". When I die in HC, I at least want the death to be interesting, but dying like this is just stupid (I know, I've done it a few times).

So far as boss reflect mechanics go, in HC I simply do not do them (aside from map completion purposes). I do not run Racecourse boss, I do not run lab on Lieutenant days. It's just not worth the risk when some bit of wayward damage happens to hit the wrong thing at the wrong time. Some may see this as a test of skill, however, I'm not interested in testing my skill set for NOT dealing damage to something.

The existence of the reflect mechanic almost seems like some kind of sick joke from which GGG derives enjoyment. This sentiment is epitomized by the fact that nobody saw fit to mention the reflect phase when Racecourse was introduced to the game. Imagine how shitty it was for the fastest HC players to rip to such a bullshit mechanic of which they could not have known!

Edit: I found this thread and posted yesterday, as I was pissed off about needing to do my uber lab and having had lieutenants 3 days in a row. Guess what, today, fucking lieutenants again!

A little bit of a nerco, but it's disgusting how many people can only respond with "lul git gud". I'm fine with needing to reroll maps sometimes because a mechanic is anti my build, but there are 3 huge issues with map mod reflect that no one has even mentioned here...

1) There are multiple times when you DO NOT KNOW what a map's mods are. There is a challenge in many leagues to complete an unidentified rare map of every tier. Zana will sometimes give unid maps, which you really want to do because of the objective (or because they have really high quant).

Monsters on the map do not say they reflect when it's a map mod, so the only way to find out is to either insta-gib, or spend 5 minutes at the start of the map dealing damage to something in a small enough way to know if it reflects, without doing too much so you just die. It's just stupid wasted time and mental energy to play in a completely counter way to how you play the rest of the game.

2) Reflect rares MAKE IT SUPER OBVIOUS! If every mob with reflect has the same big, jagged, shiny aura, then I'd be perfectly happy with it. It would still be annoying to lose that quest or high tier map, but at least it's instantly recognizable. Having a visual cue for the most deadly effect in the game in only one aspect of the game is just flat out bad design.

3) Reflect rares have also been reworked such that the damage is no longer instant, but it is sent off of the rare like a lobbing attack, giving an observant player time to avoid it. This is an amazing rework and I praised GGG for coming up with a compromise. It would be a bit weird to have this on every mob in a reflect map, but again - not having the same mechanic work the same way in all areas of a game is just bad design.

So, I'm fine with either fix: remove it, or make all instances of it work exactly the same (like the rares). In a game built around instant recognition and reaction, leaving this unchanged is literally just punishing the players.

a tip for hardcore players paranoid of missing a reflect roll on a map:
whenever you roll maps, roll them inside a stash tab (or the map tab itself), typ "reflect" in the search bar, if it doesnt light up, youre good to go

less inconvenient if you roll multiple maps at once of course

"

coldcandor wrote:

So, I'm fine with either fix

This assumes something is broken.