For all the whiners complaining minions are op

The number one complaint on minion builds being op is it is much easier to get a strong minion build for a low investment compared to other builds.

It has already been announced that GGG is going to change this in 2.0. In 2.0, 6 link will be tied to gems, not items. This will flip the script completely, and minions will be far more expensive than all other builds to make.

If you think an announcement about something about a year away, probably more, is going to get people to stop complaining... you haven't been here very long.

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DemigodParadox wrote:

The number one complaint on minion builds being op is it is much easier to get a strong minion build for a low investment compared to other builds.

It has already been announced that GGG is going to change this in 2.0. In 2.0, 6 link will be tied to gems, not items. This will flip the script completely, and minions will be far more expensive than all other builds to make.

And if they dont adjust numbers it will be by godly ammount the most broken op thing ever showed on a video game LOL.

Seriously imagine u having all minions on 6l... Like there is no way to balance this only if they add some kind of minion number limit or reduce the damage by 80%.

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IHellBoundI wrote:

Seriously imagine u having all minions on 6l... Like there is no way to balance this only if they add some kind of minion number limit or reduce the damage by 80%.

They will never reduce the damage by 80%.
And there aren't that many minions that you can spawn permanently.
You need to recast most of the minions (skeletons, raging spirits, animate weapon, phantasms, HoAg, etc), so it's not possible to keep them all up - by recasting one minion, you're not recasting the other ones, auras take mana reservation, etc.

When it comes to taking down bosses - there is a limit on how many minions can actually get to them without blocking the rest. Meaning - there is a hard cap on how many (phys) minions can actually deal the damage at any given time.

More 6-links aren't going to automagically give you more damage, unless you're PoB warrior that believes blindly the theoretical peak values that PoB spits out and you've never actually played any minion build.

tl;dr There are other limitations besides gem sockets.

OP I don't get your point I feel like your assuming that 6l will be common so minions will be weaker but you can already tabula anything you really need to 6l and having multiple 6l minions would be pretty busted within the limit of how many can be on target at once.

Basically you've not thought this through, being able to have a 6l clear and single target skill will bring builds closer together but Minion problems aren't caused by 6l they are caused by a vast out performance due to no gear reliance. Nor are they the only skills with this imbalance obviously.

If they halved the value of minion damage on the tree and moved that half onto expensive gear that would have an impact, everyone having a 6l just gonna make psuedo summoners the bomb lol

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jewelsy2 wrote:

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IHellBoundI wrote:

Seriously imagine u having all minions on 6l... Like there is no way to balance this only if they add some kind of minion number limit or reduce the damage by 80%.

They will never reduce the damage by 80%.
And there aren't that many minions that you can spawn permanently.
You need to recast most of the minions (skeletons, raging spirits, animate weapon, phantasms, HoAg, etc), so it's not possible to keep them all up - by recasting one minion, you're not recasting the other ones, auras take mana reservation, etc.

When it comes to taking down bosses - there is a limit on how many minions can actually get to them without blocking the rest. Meaning - there is a hard cap on how many (phys) minions can actually deal the damage at any given time.

More 6-links aren't going to automagically give you more damage, unless you're PoB warrior that believes blindly the theoretical peak values that PoB spits out and you've never actually played any minion build.

tl;dr There are other limitations besides gem sockets.

38 vaaletons fit on the head of a pin. Change my mind

.

I used to think minion builds were the last word in mid level sustainability, but then I built a miner...

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DemigodParadox wrote:

The number one complaint on minion builds being op is it is much easier to get a strong minion build for a low investment compared to other builds.

It has already been announced that GGG is going to change this in 2.0. In 2.0, 6 link will be tied to gems, not items. This will flip the script completely, and minions will be far more expensive than all other builds to make.

Not really, it'll make any build more expensive, since instead of just rolling weapon and body armor for 6 linsk you now have to do this for every gem in terms of socket colors. I also suspect the amount of sockets you have will be determined by the gems level. If anything it'll make minion builds even stronger, since we can now 6 link every single minion. The high dps is not what makes minion builds so good, its the safety, you have portable tanks to take the hits for you, combine this with the execellent ascendant tree for necro with how tanky it can make you, it makes a char that can dish out high dps and is pretty hard to die on since you can focus on dodging as your minions kill things.

There are build that can match a summoners dps, lots of them, the problem is they aren't nearly as safe as a summoner since they usually have to get close or self cast things to do it.

I have a arc/pyroclast miner I am making, hit maps on it, and started to have issues, dps/kill speed is fine but the problem is, it just can't take a hit, and acrobatics/phase acro seem to do essentally nothing. When I do get hit which happens often as I have to stop to toss mines, I've often one shotted with 3000 life, 600 ES and 75% resists plus flasks. meanwhile my summoner is tanky as hell and can take hits like that and not even worry about them.

So yeah they aren't so much OP as just super safe compared to builds where you have to tank the stuff yourself. My Arc Elementalist and Arc Miner can clear maps as fast or faster than my summoner can, but they also die much more since they do not have a army of minions to eat the hits.

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IHellBoundI wrote:

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DemigodParadox wrote:

The number one complaint on minion builds being op is it is much easier to get a strong minion build for a low investment compared to other builds.

It has already been announced that GGG is going to change this in 2.0. In 2.0, 6 link will be tied to gems, not items. This will flip the script completely, and minions will be far more expensive than all other builds to make.

And if they dont adjust numbers it will be by godly ammount the most broken op thing ever showed on a video game LOL.

Seriously imagine u having all minions on 6l... Like there is no way to balance this only if they add some kind of minion number limit or reduce the damage by 80%.

Its not just minions though, there are a ton of skills that will benefit from every gem being able to be 6l easly. Many builds put stuff like defensive things in 4l gloves/boots/helm, take those same defenses and now 6l them, you may think its only 2 more support gems but its pretty huge.

To balance summoner, I think the minions damage needs a bit more of a nerf, but leave their life as is, having to constantly resummon zombies would just piss people off. Right now 2-3 zombies or so can easly match most builds dps output. Vaal summon skeleton melts single targets like pyroclast mines do, really damn fast lol. When you think about it though, where is the REAL problem? the minions? or the fact the other builds just fall so far behind in offense/defense due to poor game design? I mean poe has some of the worst endgame i've seen in a action rpg, as the game is not really itemized past level 65 or so. You need more and more armor, or es, or evasion to tank higher level things, buit your stuck with lv 60-65 base items. Higher stat mods due to ilv help, but its slightly higher mods working on the same 30+ level below you base when your at 90+

As much as people rag on diablo 3 at least it has the itemization done properly, if you get the same unique at a higher ilv later in your characters life, it has higher base damage or armor compared to one you found earlier. This is one thing diablo 3 did right and one thing PoE failed horribly on doing.

I pretty much give up on PoE once I hit maps on a char as there is virutally no more gear upgrades i'll find, as its all the same crap from act 9-10 that drops just with slightly higher +to int or +to str on it.