Does the position of the color of the socket important for the link?

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Sigfried2642 wrote:

For me it's cast when channelling, so when the active skill (cyclone) is in bottom (number 5), the desecrate (number 1) will proc before the offering (number 4)? or the offering before because the link ?

It's left-right top-bottom for any kind of trigger. Desecrate would proc first.

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Llama8 wrote:

The only time it might be important is if you're using a trigger support gem (such as cast when damage taken) as these will cast gems based on their order in the links. So if you're using a CWDT to cast desecrate (for corpses) & an offering, desecrate would need to be before the offering skill in the link in order to have the corpses spawn first before the offering skill consumes them.

You're right about trigger gem linking order but your actual example is a bad one.

Desecrate has a tiny built in delay between the cast and when corpses appear. What this means is that when you link desecrate and an offering to the same trigger, the end result will always be that the corpses from desecrate are left on the ground, and if there weren't corpses already, the offering will not trigger.

Usually this is good enough--either there are corpses around to trigger the first offering, or you're in a long bossfight and the second trigger (during which the corpses from the first trigger will be on the ground) will get your offering going. But if you're really relying on an extra defensive layer the very first trigger against a hard hitting boss... you're not getting it.

Honestly I thought most people realized that this league (since it's minion league) but maybe some people just read a thing once and never test it or realize it's wrong.

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Desecrate has a tiny built in delay between the cast and when corpses appear. What this means is that when you link desecrate and an offering to the same trigger, the end result will always be that the corpses from desecrate are left on the ground, and if there weren't corpses already, the offering will not trigger.

I notice that there's a pretty good split of 100 pushers on Ninja between the Spirit crowd and the Flesh crowd. The Spirit folks seem to nearly all have it on either Cyclone CWC or CWDT with Desecrate. The Flesh folks seem to be nearly all self cast.

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codetaku wrote:

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Llama8 wrote:

The only time it might be important is if you're using a trigger support gem (such as cast when damage taken) as these will cast gems based on their order in the links. So if you're using a CWDT to cast desecrate (for corpses) & an offering, desecrate would need to be before the offering skill in the link in order to have the corpses spawn first before the offering skill consumes them.

You're right about trigger gem linking order but your actual example is a bad one.

Desecrate has a tiny built in delay between the cast and when corpses appear. What this means is that when you link desecrate and an offering to the same trigger, the end result will always be that the corpses from desecrate are left on the ground, and if there weren't corpses already, the offering will not trigger.

Usually this is good enough--either there are corpses around to trigger the first offering, or you're in a long bossfight and the second trigger (during which the corpses from the first trigger will be on the ground) will get your offering going. But if you're really relying on an extra defensive layer the very first trigger against a hard hitting boss... you're not getting it.

Honestly I thought most people realized that this league (since it's minion league) but maybe some people just read a thing once and never test it or realize it's wrong.

Desecrate creates the corpses instantly when cast. Not sure if it has always been that way, but it has been for as long as I can remember (as in, many years). There's slight delay between starting to cyclone and casting the spell, but there's no delay for Desecrate to spawn the corpses once it is cast.

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Desecrate creates the corpses instantly when cast.

We probably need to define "instantly when cast" here. I imagine you mean "after the cast time completes" but lately I've seen some folks asking about whether "when cast" means when the cast starts, or when it completes.

I just went off to test a bit because I am running it with Cyclone in one build.

The test I did was self cast - of Desecrate with Flesh Offering. It's clear that self casting FO too soon after Desecrate will cause the corpses not to spawn, but that must be due to animation cancelling, since D has a 0.6 sec cast time without mods.

I believe CWC and CWDT are written so as not to cause animation cancelling between multiple triggers. So it looks like manual casting may actually be a bad idea, since you (or at least I, for sure) could easily cast the offering too quickly in the heat of battle.

Interesting discussion...thanks to all!

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GreyLensman wrote:

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Desecrate creates the corpses instantly when cast.

We probably need to define "instantly when cast" here. I imagine you mean "after the cast time completes" but lately I've seen some folks asking about whether "when cast" means when the cast starts, or when it completes.

I just went off to test a bit because I am running it with Cyclone in one build.

The test I did was self cast - of Desecrate with Flesh Offering. It's clear that self casting FO too soon after Desecrate will cause the corpses not to spawn, but that must be due to animation cancelling, since D has a 0.6 sec cast time without mods.

I believe CWC and CWDT are written so as not to cause animation cancelling between multiple triggers. So it looks like manual casting may actually be a bad idea, since you (or at least I, for sure) could easily cast the offering too quickly in the heat of battle.

Interesting discussion...thanks to all!

Yeah, when you get into animation canceling that can present its own problems with self casting. But if the Desecrate is successfully cast, ie it completes its half second or whatever of cast time without interruption, there's no further delay in creating the corpses. Cast time is a front-loaded delay, and that's all it's got.

When it comes to channeling though, the Desecrate is always going to be cast before the Offering so long as it's before it in the links. CwC ignores the cast time of the spells, so once Desecrate is cast it's done and moves on to the next spell in the links.

Even if you stop cycloning and thus stop channeling before the Offering gets cast, no matter the reason for stopping, it will pick up where you left off when you cyclone again. If the Desecrate or other corpses are still within range, the offering gets cast (or whatever is next in the links if there's something between Desecrate and Offering). If not, the offering just goes into the void and it continues cycling through your links. That is unless you change zones, in which case it starts over from the very beginning.

Maybe it's the last-cast spell state being saved that throws some people off in some situations.