[3.8 updated] Post-nerfed "Vengeance on Crit" Gladiator. Counter-attacks are still fine. 8m+ dps

== UPDATE 3.8 ==

Vengeance's built-in physical damage got a big 66% nerf, but it also has a roughly 25% more damage effectiveness as a compensation.

Damage of the original build with PotCG in 3.7 got at least halved due to the change, but the build idea (vengeance as main damage source) is still viable and worth building around. The itemization needs adjustment, PotCG is no longer an ideal weapon since vengeance got 66% less "spellized", we should go back to some real weapons with decent damage now. At my first thought, dual-wielding Razor of the Seventh Sun and going full elemental conversion would be a way to go. Nope it turns out physical staff is still better.

Revisited this build in Blight league, working great so far.

Completed PoB 3.8: https://pastebin.com/f2B8ZvhM

T16 Crater map (build still in progress):https://youtu.be/Zqdi7-w4c5M

364 Aul: https://youtu.be/Q4HmxE-c6zM

== few changes in 3.8 ==

1. Instead of PotCG/StrStacking, using a staff with some actual damage. Ideally with high dph and crit, Disintegrator and harbinger staff are great uniques. Currently I am using a rare one.

2. Using Mokou's for self-ignite to get the 70% increased from amulet.

3. Shockwave Support on cyclone.

4. Using Herald of Ash instead of Pride when mapping. The overkill burn from big hits of vengeance/shockwave does a decent job cleaning up things.

5. find some cooldown recovery speed on boots and belt.


== current 9.1m dps calculations ==

== current setup in 3.8 BSC ==


== Overview ==

In patch 3.7, most melee skills got "spellized" by GGG -- they make the gems to have built-in base damage just like spells. Among these skills, counter attacks (reckoning/riposte/vengeance) are the most spellized ones, they have some absurd level of base damage built-in which opens some new ways to build around them. I just wanted to exploit the shit out of them.

At first I made a facebreaker riposte/reckoning build, the damage is crazy but I found the playstyle is a bit too passive for me. And in some fights you just don't have enough things to block and end up having no damage cuz counter attacks never triggered. This makes the damage feels very inconsistent.

To fix this, I made this build as my 2nd iteration of counter-attack build: using Vengeance instead cuz it triggers when *hit* so it's possible to actively trigger it by self-hitting. Vengeance requires weapon to use so facebreaker is out, but luckily we have the unique staff Pillar of the Caged Gods that serves the same purpose -- providing a fat modifier to scale the built-in base damage.

Then I need to decide how to hit myself. I have 3 options on the table -- Scolds Bridle, Gluttony and Eye of Innocence. Gluttony triggers on *use*, I don't want to spam my right-click so gluttony is out; Scolds is good but it's nearly impossible to get a correctly enchanted one in current meta and the 30% cdr enchant is too important to give up, so I ended up using Eye of Innocence.

== Clips/Videos ==

== 3.8 Update ==

T16 Crater map (build still in progress):

364 Aul:

== 3.7 videos ==

Uber Elder 1m41s (feat. eating Elder ExpandingNova): https://youtu.be/ADowHAr_oEk

Uber Elder 1m55s: https://youtu.be/wtzoYxNhwLw

random T14 mapping (trying hard not to look like a generic cyclone build): https://youtu.be/EvsKQb17xoc

Uber Elder 2m15s: https://youtu.be/TpagX19kPLw

Shaper kill: https://youtu.be/aWHHIQrFuLk

0link cyclone minotaur kill: https://youtu.be/FDa5IAiwsHE

hydra/phoenix/minotaur kills: https://youtu.be/I5GVjKb_mjg

T11 elder kill: https://youtu.be/ji1YAwt-7SA

Bonus: 3link lv1 Incinerate Uber Elder kill -- just wanted to show it's not a cyclone build, vengeance is where the damage comes from: https://youtu.be/y6NvCaLw4FQ

== Pros & Cons ==

== Pros ==
1. Damage is good at a reasonable cost. 5m+ damage per vengeance triggered if crit, can even stun uber elder with 0 stun investment.
2. Perma endurance/frenzy charges generation. Makes ascendancy "Outmatch and Outlast" actually 100% useful in boss fights. (the gladiator feature people been asking for years)
3. Active playstyle compared to other counter attack builds.
4. 75/75 block with timeless jewel.

== Cons ==
1. Vengeance's AoE is not that big (compared to the new cyclone)
2. Vengeance's animation looks lame and hard to notice.
3. Looks just like a generic cyclone build due to cons#2 so it looks very lame.

== Core Idea TLDR ==

how to trigger vengeance?
1. Cyclone has fire damage
2. When cyclone crits, it ignites, when you ignite you take a hit from eye of innocence, which has a chance to trigger vengeance.

how to scale vengeance's damage?
1. base damage: all comes from vengeance's gem level
2. Pillar of the Caged God staff provides tons (2000%-ish) of increased to scale the base damage.

frenzy/endurance charge generation?
Eye of Innocence + Charge Offensive + Cyclone = perma frenzy/endurance charges generation on hit. (Raider/jugg: I feel robbed)
oh almost forgot staff has 10% chance to gain EC on crit.

== pob & calculations ==

pob: https://pastebin.com/T4VH5qpx

This number is before gladiator's double and impale.

Vengeance has 40%+25%+20%=85% chance to impale; 59%+10%=69% increased impale effect.

True damage per vengeance triggered is:

1.49m*2*(1+0.85*0.5*(1+0.69)) = 5.12m

vengeance cooldown = 1.2s / (1+30%) = 0.92s

cyclone has 25%+20% chance to impale, 10% impale effect:

1.34m*(1+0.45*0.5*1.1) = 1.67m

so ideally the effective DPS of this build is 1.67+5.12/0.92 = 7.23m against shaper, buffed, including vaal warchief.

== Gears ==

Old setup with PotCG in 3.7, not recommended anymore.


Overall gears are pretty cheap. 6link PotCG is like 1ex, 2123 vengeance is 5c, 30% vengeance CDR enchant is like 1c, Eye of Innocence 1c, boots 1c, belts 1c... For the rest rares, just get strength resists and life.

== Jewels and Timeless Jewel ==

For timeless jewel, I choose Lethal Pride - Kiloava, for the double block keystone. Other notables give me: 5% increased strength, 4% increased maximum life, 20% fire resist.

Ideally you want as many "5% increased strength" or "15% crit multi" as possible.

for other jewels, crit multi, strength, life and resits are all good affixes, this combination is quite cheap, I got mine less than 5c each.

== gem links ==

mapping & (single target) setups:

Vengeance - Pulverise - Brutality - mpd (bloodlust) - iAoE (conc effect) - Onslaught (impale)

cyclone - chance 2 bleed - pulverise (mpd) - infused channeling - fortify - maim

precision, pride, blood&sand, war banner

leap slam - vaal ancestral warchief - faster attack, blood rage

(optional) riposte - melee spalsh - mpd - brutality

== Bandits ==
help Alira for crit multi and resits

== Discussion ==

1. Iron Fortress?
Ideally you still want a good elder rare chest, but yes, Iron Fortress is a classic combo with PotCG. It's more attainable and damage-wise it's similar to a perfect tri-suffixes elder rare. And the additional block is good too. The downside is the 10% reduced move speed and more importantly the lack of additional crit chance which hurts the triggering a bit, but you can workaround it by linking increased crit chance gem to your cyclone.

Overall it's still a good choice in this build.

2. Is impale on vengeance efficient?
Yes, because ANY hits can consume impale stacks. So every time Vengeance impales, cyclone will basically consumes all 5 stacks instantly. So impale is always working at its 100%.

Last edited by insobyr on Nov 1, 2019, 4:07:45 AM
Last bumped on Apr 23, 2020, 11:25:28 AM

Be quiet make big money.gif

i have already seen this build on reddit and its awesome. I started this concept as a reckoning/riposte facebreaker glad but the biggest problem for me was freeing the legion (even with vaal breach couldnt free up almost anything)

So i am rerolling into this.

Couple of questions:

1. Does riposte work with staff when u block? If so can the self inflicted fire damage via amulet by blocked by spell block and thus triggering riposte?

2. Glad violent retaliation - do u get phys damage and block chance everytime u block the eye of innocence fire hit?

3. Can u trigger vengenace with heartbound loop ring? Something like Cyclone-cwc-golem? Everytime u resummon the golem u should take the phys damage.

Thanks for your input and great job with the build.
1. Does riposte work with staff when u block? If so can the self inflicted fire damage via amulet by blocked by spell block and thus triggering riposte?

self-hitting cannot trigger riposte or reckoning.

2. Glad violent retaliation - do u get phys damage and block chance everytime u block the eye of innocence fire hit?

that's an interesting question, honestly I was not sure if the self-inflicted hits can be blocked or not. I spent 20 regrets to swap to violent retaliation and did some test with scolds and gluttony, I never see my block chance increased by violent retaliation. I think that means self-inflicted hits cannot be blocked, which also explains why they never trigger riposte or reckoning.

3. Can u trigger vengenace with heartbound loop ring? Something like Cyclone-cwc-golem? Everytime u resummon the golem u should take the phys damage.

heartbound loop can trigger vengeance but i don't think it will be efficient. Vengeance only has 44% chance to trigger when hit, you need to hit yourself rather frequently to make the trigger feels consistent.
Last edited by insobyr on Jun 30, 2019, 4:47:50 AM

Can i ask you how you can generate frenzy charges in boss fights (sry for my english)?
Nice Build!!
I want take a try about sword/shield.
sword of pdps 370 more and shield of The Surrender
Shield for 4-link 30LV Reckoning
other part for 4-link 21LVRiposte and 4-link cyclone
chest for 6-link Vengeance

do it work?
nicklencz wrote:

Can i ask you how you can generate frenzy charges in boss fights (sry for my english)?

you get endurance/frenzy charges from passive "Charging Offensive", you're constantly hitting yourself with eye of innocence.
Wich Pantheons do you use?
[3.9]Hasunic's Toxic Rain Trickster: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2712106
[3.7]Voidforge Flicker Strike Slayer: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2532214
[3.7]Oni-Goroshi Fire Vaal Reave Zerker: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2583978

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