Innocence Rework (Or lack Thereof)

Act 5 has always been a bastard of an act. High fire and chaos damage sources and random untelegraphed attacks from various sources (Pre-Innocence). Innocence took it to a whole new level.
Leading up to Legion I was under the impression that Innocence was getting an entire overhaul seeing a nerf pr removal to his bullet hell and a tone down of his attacks so they are survivable to certain characters and the addition of cover, as was the act 7 spider and act 10 Kitava. My Deaths to legion encounters have been my own fault as my positioning and choice of attack targets was too broad. Hitting Innocence however was a different story.

After what I just experienced against Innocence was a bloody lie if I ever saw one. Instant hits from untelegraphed (during sequences of chained attacks) bullet hell attacks that cover the whole screen with no cover that are instant kills in close quarters (likely due to short angles of dispersal) and cover randomly disappears during these attacks with no obvious way to dodge the incoming fire. This time though the internet was not the issue and it is clear that it is a design issue. No other bosses except for him, grind my gears more and it feels as a betrayal (pardon the pun) to only add monster adds as a bandade.

You at Grinding Gear Game need to clearly consider the damage and the ways that is conveyed to the player and how that translates to actual impact in universe. It's cool a god can melt you as it meets the lore, but as a player it feels disgustingly difficult. Dark Souls 1 and Diablo 2 did this perfectly and refer to Artorias, Mephisto, Baal, Diablo, and Gwyn as good ways to handle bullet hell and telegraphed attacks and try methods of translating that to Innocence, I'm more than happy to test these ideas.

Cheers wwalsh01

Like the first time, I went in blind against innocense after Legion's launch in HC .... and I killed him.

So it's definitely not as bad as you are saying.
There is no untelegraphed instant OS, however there is one move that is deadly ( took 80% of my life ) and the 'windup' or 'pre-hit' is not obvious at all if you don't know it in advance so ... that one was a bit of a b**** to me.

Apart from that, it's difficult, but it's manageable ( and I did not have super high dps, I killed him with Vortex+frost bomb, I could not use my vortex efficiently as I was running around everyzhere ), really close range melee skills might have troubles with it though, I'm not so sure.

I was using cyclone with a dash of elemental attacks. A melee skill. As you could probally guess bullet hell starts at his feet and overlaps with the graphic for the bullets.

I had no issue dealing DPS. It was being allowed to attack without dying that was the hard part sadly. For the reasons above.

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Littledragon01 wrote:

I was using cyclone with a dash of elemental attacks. A melee skill. As you could probally guess bullet hell starts at his feet and overlaps with the graphic for the bullets.

I had no issue dealing DPS. It was being allowed to attack without dying that was the hard part sadly. For the reasons above.

The bullet hells does not start damaging you right away, he throws the ball, that slowly travels before exploding afaik.
And it's a big "GET OUT OF THERE" like thing.

I don't believe it's bursting out instantly if you're in actual melee range, does it ?


The d**** move I was refering to is the one where he winds up a little bit, and then he rushed onto you and flattens everything in front of him with a big AOE.

That's the one I also have trouble with. His design needs a re-tweak to make it ever so more balanced in the favor of the player.

The biggest CoC move is hiding behind a statue which mechanically you are probably supposed to do only for it to be awakened and you being hit in the face by whatever he just fires. Never trust those statues.

You absolutely must be patient in this fight. When Innocence is firing you must run and dodge around the "bullets." When he's finished you get in range and fire and then run away again. There's no reason you shouldn't have elemental resists capped by this fight, you must have some defenses and you must have flasks. There's no reason to dumb it down. Think of the many thousands of times this has fight has been won before you, deathless. Just Google it if you need to learn the mechanics.

All of you who find Innocence dangerous need to be (ab)using the new Guard skills to protect from his damage spikes.

That's what those skills are FOR.

I didn't die during Innocence as melee, and I wasn't even dodging his bullet hells: fire resist plus molten shell allowed my chieftain to sit on Innocence and eat that damage like it was nothing.

The skill floor and ceiling have both been raised with the instant guard skills and animation cancelling mechanics. Players need to either rise with them or accept that their skill level is more in line with summoners and chaos degen builds.

beat him with a 3 link and a life flask with 50 ish res across the board.

you should have about 1600 hp by the time you get to him.
if you don't start prioritizing life nodes more early as damage can be carried with gems and uniques/rares

The game is rewarding positioning , like the shaper/elder fight did before. You simply have to get used to attacking and moving when you see wind ups.

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nadakuu wrote:

beat him with a 3 link and a life flask with 50 ish res across the board.

you should have about 1600 hp by the time you get to him.
if you don't start prioritizing life nodes more early as damage can be carried with gems and uniques/rares

The game is rewarding positioning , like the shaper/elder fight did before. You simply have to get used to attacking and moving when you see wind ups.

It's all nice to say that, but the tells blend badly into the next attack and frankly are horrid. Other bosses don't have this problem. I had the right amount of health and was using recommended gear as you said. Cover should be readily available and "Arise" doesn't give me enough time to react and move.