Yikes. These BaeClast comments are worrying.

Perhaps they are only worth worrying about relative to your expectations. Anyone who though Heavy Strike was about to top Worb, or brands, or TS, or any optimized ranged ability with great aoe at speed clearing probably wasn't thinking straight in the first place.

It does seem like another league, though, where you'll want to play something reliable first, farm some currency, then load up a second character once we see how everything is playing out.

I wanted to start Glacial Hammer, but I'm leaning towards EK Chieftan since the reveal of that. Should be fine till I figure out what I really want to spend currency on.

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

Its this, Speed is the metric by which all builds eventually get measured but it should never fall earlier in the criteria because of that fact.

its only part of the community which measure every build by SPEED SPEED SPEED.

probably every single build/skill can actually beat majority of this games content, as i think has been proven.
some builds do it easier, some do it faster, some do it cheaper. nerfs come through on things that do it way too easy and faster and cheaper, like winter orb. this is your typical balance. you cannot focus and balance around being too fast though, or else you're forcing things to be slow. nobody is forcing anyone to be fast.

also not even sure why people are comparing such things anyway. this is basically a solo player game. its a pretty classic case of people watching cutedog play 16 hours a day with builds that clear a map in 30 seconds with 400 exalts investment and think the whole game is unfair because they can't do it too.

then when things like winter orb are getting balanced by nerfing them since they stick so far out past the closest competition, people whine about that "you're taking away my fun!!"

either way all you get is bitch bitch bitch.

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

If you require speed over say defense or damage even then it creates a loop that makes character development really shallow

i have never experienced a requirement of speed over anything else - yet. even with timed instances, breach being one of the worst actually, i've still been plenty fine with slower melee builds - personally.

just because content has a timer doesn't mean its punishing slower builds. GGG obviously considers this in the timer itself. it isn't an unfair amount of time where only 2% of the player base can actually do it. so there really is no merited complaint here, IMO.

so far the worse timed stuff has been synthesis, but only because of the random layout bullshit of the blue-goo cutting you off and stuff.
next up is probably breach stones. you can cut it pretty close on the timer in the harder zones.

as far as im aware the game has never ever been "fuck you you're too slow, go home"

sooo....that really only leaves the speed clear complaints to the people that just want as much stuff as people that have faster clearing builds.
and yes, sorry, but equity doesn't work. if you want more stuff you grind more stuff. want less of a grind? kill more things in the same amount of time and you get more things in the same amount of time. this concept is not new nor is it unique to PoE. its the genre. get used to it

"

xMustard wrote:

as far as im aware the game has never ever been "fuck you you're too slow, go home"

Probably one of the main take aways from the podcast was Chris literally saying fuck you to slow builds.

He explained that PoE already punishes you for clearing slower (less loot, less winning).

And he has no intention of making content viable to slow killing builds such as complaints about Legion's timer/incursions/betrayals/etc....

I can understand the design philosophy, but I have to admit it even rubbed me the wrong way. And I'm already shifted from more niche to meta builds.

Nothing feels great unless you are playing/killing things quickly.

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RPGlitch wrote:

"

xMustard wrote:

as far as im aware the game has never ever been "fuck you you're too slow, go home"

Probably one of the main take aways from the podcast was Chris literally saying fuck you to slow builds.

He explained that PoE already punishes you for clearing slower (less loot, less winning).

And he has no intention of making content viable to slow killing builds such as complaints about Legion's timer/incursions/betrayals/etc....

I can understand the design philosophy, but I have to admit it even rubbed me the wrong way. And I'm already shifted from more niche to meta builds.

Nothing feels great unless you are playing/killing things quickly.

ok but define these builds. most people thing anything that isn't a 40 second clear WORB build is a slow build that gets fucked.

an actual fuck you slow build im thinking a name locking single target hit each monster once per kill build. will that build get fucked? probably. link some god damn supports and guess what, you'll be fine.

im not even sure builds this slow can exist at the moment.

so what exactly are you talking about. because you can still interact with every single thing in the game that faster builds can, can you not?

"

xMustard wrote:

as far as im aware the game has never ever been "fuck you you're too slow, go home"

Chayula and arguably Uul-netol zones were exactly that, you just couldn't do it without having enough clear speed. Something like manipulating Incursion rooms was a different story, if you're focused on your goal you can kill the architect and open a door even with a fairly slow build, clearing them fully is a different matter, of course, but that wasn't required to progress with the content.

Told you being slow has no place in this game even Chris said it lol

dam right.

I have a feeling they dont like the speed that the game has gotten to, but realize that its too late to go back, unfortunately.

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raics wrote:

"

xMustard wrote:

as far as im aware the game has never ever been "fuck you you're too slow, go home"

Chayula and arguably Uul-netol zones were exactly that, you just couldn't do it without having enough clear speed. Something like manipulating Incursion rooms was a different story, if you're focused on your goal you can kill the architect and open a door even with a fairly slow build, clearing them fully is a different matter, of course, but that wasn't required to progress with the content.

right, like i said breach is basically the worst case example currently in the game. is this a bad thing? not necessarily. its a half-way check that you need to pass to be able to get the opportunity to complete that content.
its basically saying, you're not good enough, you need to upgrade. that isn't a terrible thing. if you can't get to the boss do you think you can kill that boss? or deserve to?

however, probably a high majority of builds would still clear that content. melee included. it isn't like you HAVE to be a crazy tornado shot clear speed build in order to do a chayula.

i've played straight melee for years - raider melee too (one of the worst ascendancies available for a long time) and i've always done fine.
it might take me longer to get to that point of content than others, but i could still get there and complete it perfectly fine.

right now the clear speed meta complaints are less about being able to do it and more about doing it as well as others. that is what makes it invalid

Well, they are increasing rare monsters health by 100%, and magic monsters probably 25-50%, so game will get a bit slower, and a lot Rippier

Can somebody explain me what "slow build" even means.
I played many different builds both in trade and ssf and i never had any problems with time limit. At this point i start to think that by "slow build" people really mean totaly garbage build or "I WANT TO KILL STUFF WITH DEFAULT ATTACK"