Can we just let Zana sell us all the maps already!

"

jackof8lades wrote:

And destroy a large part of the economy?
do you ppl ever think about what you wright down?

You mean the worst part of the economy?

Also we have other items available at vendors, like fusings for example, yet people are still trading for them.
So even with maps, depending on drop rates, trading would still be more cost effective. Zana already sells maps and are usually twice as expensive as you get them from trade, yet i don't mind seeing an option to pay a bit extra to not deal with all the bs that comes with map trading.

Plus with all the new features the game is getting, there are more sources for easy currency (delve or nexus nodes) so a chaos sink wouldn't be a bad idea to slow down the inflation.

Personally I would prefer not needing specific maps for anything in the game. Guardians excluded I guess.

Those mechanics that require you to have a specific map, and theres really only elder/shaper influence and the new dalies, they are utter crap with the map drop system.

I don't mind progressing through maps without buying maps. In the end you are expected to play so much that 150+ atlas progression is not even the beginning of the farm.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2273902/page/1#p16039481

Many would appreciate having access to content as there is no difficulty gateway anymore. Yet GGG still thinks that gating content behind trade is way to keep players online and playing.

It will reach a point when I say to myself "fck it, not worth" and gonna go play Grim Dawn again instead. It is usually around 2nd week of the league.

"

jackof8lades wrote:

You don't need to trade maps to complete your atlas(well besides unique maps ofc.), trading just speeds thing up.

Yes... yes it does, especially since if RNG decides to fuck you bareback since there is no deterministic way to progress through the atlas available AT ALL. Which in itself is one of the worst game-design choices I've ever seen in ANY game since my 27 years of gaming experience in over 1500 games... then yes... it 'only' speeds things up, by about a week or more.

But you're right, we need no trading for maps actually, we just need GGG to man the fuck up and implement deterministic ways for core-progression as well as deterministic ways for content access all over the board.

"

jackof8lades wrote:

PPl quit bad leagues sustain has very little to do with it,also ppl quiting cause they suck and or are lazy is hardly a big loss.

Absolutely wrong, it's quite the contrary.
Why do I say that?

Imagine playing Super Mario, and as you finish a level you don't progress.. instead the game rolls randomly if you're allowed to progress, you have to repeat the level or you're forced back to the last level and you have to go from there.

Would you play this Mario-game then? If yes then the chance you're just playing a game to waste time rather then it being actually compelling is fairly high.

"

jackof8lades wrote:

And ill repeat over and over again, if you dont know how to sustain the tier you are playing on you don't deserve to play at that tier.

T16 sustain here, without issues in standard as I know what I'm doing.
In league though... I got pushed back from T14 to T10 4 times in total while having to work myself back up, wasting 1 1/2 free days, or 9 hours total in my case.
Was it fun? No... did I think about saying 'fuck it' and going back to standart? Yes.
What would a newer player think instead? 'Fuck this game, it's BS'... and I can't even say no when such a situation happens, because it IS BS.

"

jackof8lades wrote:

This whole sentence of about not caring and wanting easy acces to elder sums up the problem perfectly, most of the complainers are just lazy and have a poor understanding of the game,not just the gameplay aspect of it but also to what kind of game poe actually is and to whom it caters to.

Oh, I'm an opponent to providing easier access to things. I'm someone speaking up for providing ways to get progress 100% in ANY situation though.
This means challenges while not hiding progress behind any RNG-bar.
Items in RNG... sure, fine. Progress in RNG... nono.

Edit:

Also... who is it catering to? The casuals? Sure... GGG made power-creep so common that end-game bosses are trivial with a decent build. But they get fucked over by accessibility issues GGG never tackled or seemingly wants to tackle.
Mid-tier players? Oh.. there is none, you either trivialize anything up to T16, or you're already stuck at yellow maps since the power-level and spiky damage gets to such ridiculous levels suddenly.
Or the veterans and top-tier? Yes, we got tons of crafting options for end-game items... though who needs them actually? Uber-elder is a joke, shaper is a joke, Cortex is either a joke or a nightmare, you never know before he spawns. Deep-delve is the only place where there is actual challenge right now... to a degree. At least it's the ONLY place where you can't utterly ignore all mechanics just... cause.

So go again, who are they catering to? What am I misunderstanding here? Cause the only people they do right now are gambling-addict types, getting their 'fix' with drops and crafts.

And not need to run any really hard rolled map ever again ?


Seems like a brilliant idea there, remove some incentive incentive to run corrupted red, since you could MF low level maps, buy the high level map and run all guardians white to unlock the shaper's realm.

/s

"

But you're right, we need no trading for maps actually, we just need GGG to man the fuck up and implement deterministic ways for core-progression as well as deterministic ways for content access all over the board.

Or, you can use the tools you have available to deal with it, zana mods and questline is there for a reason.

"

T16 sustain here, without issues in standard as I know what I'm doing.
In league though... I got pushed back from T14 to T10 4 times in total while having to work myself back up, wasting 1 1/2 free days, or 9 hours total in my case.
Was it fun? No... did I think about saying 'fuck it' and going back to standart? Yes.
What would a newer player think instead? 'Fuck this game, it's BS'... and I can't even say no when such a situation happens, because it IS BS.

Your standard stash is much more full of maps, you also have more currency built up to properly roll them.

Not really the same.

"

This means challenges while not hiding progress behind any RNG-bar.
Items in RNG... sure, fine. Progress in RNG... nono.

You are and will forever be unable to convince GGG that this should be changed.

If you do it enough times, on average with investment your pool increases, thats why people are able to sustain in SSF and sell maps in trade league.

Stop being so impatient and do the required things, GGG isn't going to give you a shortcut.


You can also effectively "buy" t15 maps from using the shaped mod via zana.

All those "problem solved" people somehow expect that everybody is using boxed trade account. That is NOT based on reality. As far as I know, redirecting messages by third party software/scripts is breaking TOS.

Reality is that significant portion of sellers simply ARE NOT AVAILABLE FOR TRADE.

"sorry in lab"
"sorry in rota"
"sorry doing Nexus"

So, problem is not solved. Quite literally, problem is unsolvable, as long as there is content you cannot leave at wish AND you need to be personally present at the exchange.

And we had this argument million times before.

"

Fruz wrote:

And not need to run any really hard rolled map ever again ?


Seems like a brilliant idea there, remove some incentive incentive to run corrupted red, since you could MF low level maps, buy the high level map and run all guardians white to unlock the shaper's realm.

/s

Can you even read? How does a boss-drop with a fixed weighting make MF more viable in low-tier? It stays the same it is now, just that there is an item available which is useful.

Also why would it ruin red-maps? The reason we even farm in T16 are only 2: exp and high ilvl elder/shaper bases.
Div cards are not related to area-level, currency is not related to area-level.

Go ahead, roll 20 T5 maps and put sextants around, then use prophecies/fragments/scarabs and run them with a MF setup. The outcome will be EXACTLY the same as when you're doing a T16 where you're not picking up any items.

Also who says that#s the only thing GGG has to do? Whenever someone suggests to fix 1 broken shit in the game the others chime in with 'but because of x it wouldn't work!'.
Yeah, you#re right, but calling out all the broken mechanics, addict-driven implementations and trivializing of actual challenge-levels and the amount of content would take a literal essay by now.
The game is fairly much fucked, and unless they don't start fixing the things the community complained about back in 2.0 already rather then slapping on work-around and adding new stuff on top... well.. then we won't EVER get a solution to ANY of the problems present.

So, what do you suggest should be done about Syndicate?
If nothing... how do you instead justify the difficulty to casual players?
Where is the incentive for mid-tier players?
If changing their damage, how do you justify it to top-tier players?

You see? There will ALWAYS be a group not happy with a SINGLE change. That's why GGG needs to properly implement content which allows for all of those to run enjoyably, then ADD to that content further along. Nothing which they did coherently in ANY manner over the course of the last years sadly, trying to please all.

If you got a FIX for Syndicate - as you must be an absolute idiot to say there is no issue with the amount of threads highlighting them - which pleases the majority of people, well.. then I'm all ears.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Or, you can use the tools you have available to deal with it, zana mods and questline is there for a reason.

Doesn't help with the fact it is still RNg-based and not deterministic, you can do it 100 times and be the unlucky bastard who still hasn't got a single fitting one.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Your standard stash is much more full of maps, you also have more currency built up to properly roll them.

Sustain is the amount of maps returned relative to the amount of maps input. Also I run 'badly rolled' maps in-between as well which show me the return-rate with different strategies.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Stop being so impatient and do the required things, GGG isn't going to give you a shortcut.

This has nothing to do with 'impatient'. If you reach a certain level in difficulty and loose it by RNG it feels bad. Unrewarding, like you're punished despite not doing anything wrong. The option to fall back is awful, the option to progress slower isn't. The option not to progress at all is awful as well, that's important to discern here.

Hence why we need a deterministic way, how often that happens is a balancing act, but it takes care of those people who - as said - get fucked over by RNG badly. And that happens.

"

Doesn't help with the fact it is still RNg-based and not deterministic, you can do it 100 times and be the unlucky bastard who still hasn't got a single fitting one.

Not everything needs to be deterministic. If there is that one map you don't have you can just wait and move up to the next tier. You can then check zana's deals when they reset in order to see if it becomes available to buy.

Or you can take the shortcut and buy it off of trade.

"

Sustain is the amount of maps returned relative to the amount of maps input. Also I run 'badly rolled' maps in-between as well which show me the return-rate with different strategies.

Its easier to sustain if you have a larger pool to start off with.


Try sustaining with 10 maps and RNG vs 100 maps with RNG. Odds are in 10 maps you might run down to a few before being able to climb back up again, if you have a 100 maps in standard, you aren't going to run down to "dangerous" levels because you have a larger pool to account for the RNG variance.

"

This has nothing to do with 'impatient'. If you reach a certain level in difficulty and loose it by RNG it feels bad. Unrewarding, like you're punished despite not doing anything wrong. The option to fall back is awful, the option to progress slower isn't. The option not to progress at all is awful as well, that's important to discern here.

Not everything is about progressing in levels at a super efficient rate. The atlas is so large that in fact you won't progress it faster then you outpace the content in terms of difficulty. But that also has to do with power creep and the ever so expanding amount of maps on the atlas.


Fall back is weird, you have the option for 5-6 c? From zana to make any t10 a t15 map, so you can only fall back further than that if you fail to do zana's questline or if you aren't willing to put 6c investment into a t15 map (which is a point in itself)


You have tools available to you to use to make RNG less painful, if you are refusing to use them, then you have no right to bitch about the system at all.

"

Hence why we need a deterministic way, how often that happens is a balancing act, but it takes care of those people who - as said - get fucked over by RNG badly. And that happens.

Actually, the zana mod basically is a deterministic way of sustaining higher end maps now that I think about it. You might not get the exact layout you want, but it does open up options for you to "sustain" in a way.

"

Xystre wrote:

I quit that quest on 10/15 because I couldnt tolerate anymore having to pm 20-30 people for red maps, the higher it went the worse it was for me.

no shaper kill for me I guess.

And I agree with you.

never had to whisper more than 5 this season, trading heavy

... you maybe whispered the same player who put in 20 maps of same type? :D