I can't shake the suspicion that Sin could actually be [major spoilers]

Kitava.

That might sound completely barking mad to a lot of players, but there are a ton of signs all over the place which seem to point to something like this. In isolation, an interpretation of a bit of lore here and there can seem like a bit of an imaginative stretch. Together... well, you decide.

First we must ask, who is Kitava?

He's the Karui god of corruption, the cannibal god, otherwise known as the black spirit. He will arise at the end of days and take everything away.

What is corruption and where did it originate?

In the Hall of Innocence, the story of Sin and Innocence can be found. The story speaks of how Sin was continually punished for his ways, while Innocence was praised for his. At once stage Sin stole a fish (remember this), and he was ultimately burned at the stake. However, his ashes scattered across the village and corrupted all the people. This resulted in the people combining into a great titan beast (presumed to be The Beast, a creation of Sin, also believed to be the source of corruption).

So the origins and spread of corruption are very much connected to Sin, it is his very essence, so why is Kitava the Father of Corruption?

What is a cannibal?

The difference between a cannibal and a carnivore is pretty straightforward: a cannibal consumes his own species; Kitava eating birds, or fish, or even humans does not make him a cannibal. He would need to consume another god, yet we never see nor hear about him doing that. Yet we do see another god consuming not only other gods, but among them two specific gods he considers part of his own family ie. his own wife and daughter.

The Black Spirit?

Kitava is a big red demon-looking god. He would have originally looked more human, and his appearance will have changed over the centuries, yet he is no black spirit. On the other hand "black spirit" would be a very apt description of Sin's physical form.

So what about the stolen fish?

That makes a parallel obvious between the tale of Kitava's torments and the tale of Sin and Innocence. Both tales speak of an individual who is repeatedly punished for actions such as theft or gluttony, and both tales involve fish. The similarities are uncanny.

What do I think this means?

Both tales may refer to a singular event in the distant past, which was twisted over the years into two distinct versions. We know both tales are inaccurate but have truths in there.

Kitava should have been asleep for thousands of years because of the effects of The Beast, yet Kaom was manipulated by (what is believed to be) Kitava during that time, who took the form of Tukohama. So we know that "Kitava" is not above trickery, lies, and patiently playing long games.

Would you trust someone called Sin, with Sin's history and appearance?

NPCs like Lani point that out bluntly; we trust Sin because (a) "Kitava" is a bigger threat and he appears to help us with that, and (b) because everything else he says appears to make sense and be truthful.

But if Sin is able to create a being like The Beast, able to put all the other gods to sleep, why would that be his only creation? Could he not also create something like... a gigantic Diabolos "puppet" or Karui "agent" that he could use for the purpose of manipulation? One interesting idea is that all the gods were "more human" in the past, and it was the power of The Beast which corrupted them while they slept into the more feral forms we see in the game: the forms Sin has us kill.

I suspect the "Kitava" we fight is such a puppet, under the control of Sin, who is in truth the true Kitava. Like Kaom and Utuala, we're being manipulated by false facts. Here, "Kitava puppet" serves primarily to facilitate our trust and faith in Sin, and our actions during the mission to recover the ember from The Beast likely involved us doing things which have unforeseen consequences - elminating the entire God pantheon for a start.

By the end of the adventure we fully trust Sin, as does most of the population of Oriath. Innocence has put himself into a self-imposed exile, leaving someone in a very good spot to fill the void left by "Kitava", and while we're away chasing the Shaper and Elder across realms, Sin could be amassing strength from all of his new followers who praise him willingly.

And, as was pointed out was the case for Daresso, what stronger prison is there, what bigger trap is there, than one we can't see because we're so happy and content that we don't want to leave?

What about us? We're in our own trap - the Atlas of Worlds, a false reality which exists to suit our own needs as well as those of significant others throught history. The Shaper, Elder and even Cavas were eventually corrupted and held prisoner more forcefully in some way, and it's hard to believe that's not a fate intended for us too.

It's really no stretch to consider that Maps, a thing discovred via research into Virtue Gems, a byproduct of The Beast, a creation of Sin - are not also ultimately a creation of Sin himself, too.

So when you consider that Lani isn't "living beyond the last page of her religious book", because events in the story simply resemble those foretold events but are not actually those events, you have to also consider that Kitava must still be very much alive in order to take everything away at the end of days.

And Sin is not only very much alive, but in the best possible position to amass great power without arising suspicion, and has accounted for any possible resistance including from us.

Pretty interesting!

Me, to one of my mates picking up the game: Spoilers - Sin has us pack up the other gods and then when none are left, he says "oh dearie me, I guess I'm the only one left to take control of the cosmos! *surprise face* "

That we didn't see that happen in acts 1-10 doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't happen in 11, 12, etc.

Although I think at this point it's clear the old storyline is perhaps not a strong enough foundation to support more weight.

Yeah, the original story has had so much tacked onto it in bits and pieces as each league came and went that it's barely even coherent anymore.

Leaving aside the OP's theory for a moment, any potential Acts 11+ would honestly require the base game's story to be rebuilt or at least "refurbished" to tell a more coherent story overall in the first place, instead of the mish-mash it has become.

I recon its not that hard to rewrite history for poe acts, afterall the biggest job is to create tilesets, once u have tilesets just write different story

I think there are things that Sin didn't tell us, he just guided us to fulfill his goals, which "accidentally" were the same as our goals.

Also, next big expansion, my guess is, it will be centered around their mom, Kalandra.

edit, more about Sin, I got the idea during all acts that he is just bored of godhood and life. So there may be a plot where he wants to find a successor, and basically turns rogue to test player, and finally find his rest in death.

"

Necromael wrote:

Also, next big expansion, my guess is, it will be centered around their mom, Kalandra.

Going off of the stuff in the Temple: she's a manipulative piece of work.

Bet she sells Mirrors online for $20...

"

LeetbakaDX wrote:

"

Necromael wrote:

Also, next big expansion, my guess is, it will be centered around their mom, Kalandra.

Going off of the stuff in the Temple: she's a manipulative piece of work.

Bet she sells Mirrors online for $20...

[Redacted by support].co/\/\ spambot shut down amidst Karui rebellion

Theopolis (Reuters) - League exiles crowded the burning Oriath Square late last night as mysterious agents in riot gear broke what is shaping up to be the largest currency bot scam ever.

Kalandra Schimpfer, 310,000, covered her face with a paper grocery sack as she was led out by special agents amid a jeering, roaring mob of angry exiles and Kitava zealots, many of whom had tried to buy currency in this short league, only to lose their money.

Agents also confiscated wagonloads of servers, hard drives, and map devices as well as some 1.7 bn credits worth of orbs and mirrors.

Regional ports are closed as security forces are still looking for Sin and Innocence Schimpfer-Whateley, her sons and co-conspirators.

Any exiles or Kitava zealots on union-mandated destruction break, call 800-ISEENEM if you have any information on the whereabouts or intentions of either of these two dangerous criminals.

--A charcoal-black fellow chain smoking in any town asking passersby "Hey, humanity needs us right? Need a few chaos? I can hook you up"

--A great shining golden manbaby scowling down at mortals and asking "Hey how much is an exalt worth this league? Anyone? Can someone make change for a mirror?"

Do not accept or trade any currency with them, instead report them at once.

"

crunkatog wrote:

...

Lol I love it.

But while I want to believe Sin’s actually fine - I like the idea of the shadow god who was manipulated into his position through emotional trauma actually being the good guy - I do have a strong hunch he’s not telling us something.

Also Kalandra’s definitely going to be the final, final boss of PoE someday.

Nice theory!