Toxic Rain Bow Crafting

Hello guys,

A few days ago, I've started to craft my own toxic rain bow and as you can see I was REALLY LUCKY :




So at this point, exept 6 linking it (spend 1200 fusing and din't get it...) what should I do? I'm new into crafting god like items hahaha.

Thank you for your help.

well you have room for 2x suffix and 1x prefix. 1 suffix is used up with multi mod craft, so 1x suffix and 1x prefix.

you'll want an attack speed something for damn sure. actually the elder attack speed mod would be way better than additional arrow, for toxic rain, but its a sick bow anyway, obviously.

so ya best bet is to craft multi mod, craft attack speed and non ailment chaos damage over time multiplier and call it a day.

for future reference, when you have your bow base, just quality it up to 28-30 with betrayal or fossils, then craft added quality and socket/link it first. then start with the actual crafting stage.

If I am not mistaken you could block unwanted mods with the suffix "cannot roll attack mods" and slam EX to get +1 skill gem (there should be no other possible rolls for prefix than +1 skill).
https://poedb.tw/us/mod.php?cn=Bow

You have 2 open suffixes so you can slam suffix instead of prefix eventually for the first time (the second suffix is blocked with "cannot roll attack mods")

It would be possible to craft multi mod + cannot roll attack mods to block both suffix mods, slam EX to get +1 skill gems but you will save nothing.
You will end up with 3 prefixes and 2 open suffixes.

So you can have

1) +2 bow, pseudo-7 link with +(36–40)% to Non-Ailment Chaos Damage over Time Multiplier + attack speed (as xMustard has suggested)
or

2) +1 skill, 2bow, pseudo-7 link with attack speed

I haven´t made any comparison (you can do it via PoB) but the second option seems better to me bcos of +2 to Toxic Rain skill gem (+1 from bow, +1 from Empower).

the difference in DPS is about 4%, but the price difference is pretty significant.

I know many of the high end TR players use elder bows with vicious projectiles, but I don't really know why when synthed multimod bows exist this league. Even without the synth implicit, I think the multimod bow is better, as attack speed is too valuable as a utility stat to use a support link that has a 10% less attack speed penalty tied to it.

People have already talked about slamming +1 or just crafting chaos multi. Given the difference is likely not that huge, I would just craft the chaos multi. Though you can work to setup your syndicate to get "free"-ish slams with Leo 3* in research.

I would especially not spend a ton on this bow because a synthesized bow multimod is better... at least for my own build (occultist using ES so Damage on Full life support), and I'd be wanting to be working on a synthed bow as an eventual upgrade, so would be sinking currency into that.

To compare, I'm going to assume that +1 arrow is worth approx 7% more damage. I think this is about right given that you gain the extra arrow, but lose some overlap damage because the spread gets larger. I don't have all the details on this, but I think 7% more is roughly correct on average... it's definitely not a full 20% more going to 6 arrows from 5, and whether it's 5 or 10 or in-between results in the same overall conclusion. I'm comparing with the same links (lvl21 TR / Mirage / Damage on full life / Void Manip / Swift afflic / Empower lvl 4):

Elder bow: 45.1k * 1.07 = 48.2k shaper DoT DPS / 3.09 APS / 42 mana
Synthed multimodded bow: 50k shaper DoT DPS / 3.41 APS / 32 mana

So the synthed bow pumping gem level to 30 is a little higher base DPS (prob barely noticeable,) but because vicious projectiles isn't linked, you're also at 10% more attack speed and 10 less mana per attack.... which ARE very noticeable.

-----

How I synthed my bow (which I haven't fully finished linking & crafting yet, so it isn't in my profile yet, but I have the synthed implicit bow):

1) Obtain bases with 1 fractured mod that's a suffix. The base I used was Grove bow, which has a lower dex requirement, as I don't really care about the physical damage advantage that a Thicket bow provides. These were ~5c each.
2) scour and alt / aug until you get +1 socketed
3) regal
4) repeat for 2 more bows
5) Synth and hope.

I first did a bow the +1 bow gems implicit. This was when I was an idiot and didn't realize that the +1 socketed gems implicit is strictly superior.

My first bow (+1 bow gems implicit) took 2 attempts. My second bow (+1 socketed gems implicit) took 3 attempts. The fractured mods and regaled mods were just random whatever mods.

Overall it cost about half to 3/4ths of an exalt in random mats per attempt or so. Sometimes +1 socketed is stubborn to roll with alt / aug.

Then increase quality & craft more quality and 6 link
Then alt until you get +1 socketed gems as the prefix w/ no suffix.
Then regal and annul and re-roll +1 socketed 2 or 3 times because you keep hitting +1 socketed gems (this is the worst part, for sure)
Then craft multimod, +2 support, chaos multi, attack speed, and your last suffix (this barely matters, ~15% increased chaos dmg is the only damage based one, you may be better off with a resist if it opens up options on other gearing)

Overall cost is ~5-6 exalts depending on luck with alts and annuls.

for my toxic rain build, i already tested an elder bow with vicious proj vs synth bows

essentially synth bows suck ball sacks in comparison. elder bow BLOWS them out of the water, unless you can get +3 levels through the implicits. +1 level is not even close, +2 levels is close but still edges elder bow.

"

xMustard wrote:

for my toxic rain build, i already tested an elder bow with vicious proj vs synth bows

essentially synth bows suck ball sacks in comparison. elder bow BLOWS them out of the water, unless you can get +3 levels through the implicits. +1 level is not even close, +2 levels is close but still edges elder bow.

Well, this is a +1 socketed implicit, which is +2 levels to TR. +3 is crazy expensive and not obtainable to most.

I just double checked, and I left something out of the PoB on the elder bow, perhaps I left out the slam from the elder bow? Anyway, I redid the the PoB correctly and DPS was ~45k (~48.2k adding a multiplier for the extra arrow), so The DPS is really close with the synth bow edging, but the APS and mana of the synth bow is just so much better due to not using 7 links and vicious projectiles... such a bad support link for TR. I'd rather use Area of Effect or Efficacy than vicious projectiles.

You didn't do your comparison with vicious projectiles in the synth bow did you?

It basically comes down to the feel of +1 arrow vs. 10% more attack speed (and maybe slightly more DPS, but probably hard to feel the DPS difference.) I just cannot imagine +1 arrow feels better in practice than 10% more attack speed. In my experience it's speed EVERY time.

well thats his elder bow, which is already not ideal.

anyway i guess i'll pull it up and figure it out and record the data again to showcase the difference.


alright so my current bow is a quill rain. i also use 4x totem and mirage archer so im just going to figure everything. keep in mind this is NOT including poison, just pure DoT dmg. if i included poison, there would be a bunch of supports that are better, but the dps would be way too delayed.

LINK
mirage archer, void manip, efficacy, vicious proj, swift affliction.
only conc effect gives more dmg

MYSELF
dps: 25,515.2
atkspd: 7.5
duration: 1.9

363,591.6

MIRAGE ARCHER
dps: 22,708.53
atkspd: 3
duration: 1.9

129,438.62

TOTEMS
dps: 7,391.6
atkspd: 5.55
duration: 2.04
totems: 4

334,750.78

so TOTAL dps PER POD is 827,781. i currently fire 7 pods, soon will be 9. but i have large aoe so its hard to say how many pods do damage at one time, maybe little less than half. lets say 4 pods. thats currently 3.3m dps with a quill rain.




now to do the same thing, but with my elder bow (if i can ever link it). elder bow mods are +2 socketed bow gems, lvl 16 vicious proj, non ailment chaos damage over time, attack speed, and attack speed if near rare or unique mob.

LINK
mirage archer, void manip, efficacy, 16/0 vicious proj, swift affliction, conc effect (way more dmg than empower 4)

MYSELF
dps: 103,863.7
atkspd: 4.56
duration: 1.9

899,875.1

MIRAGE ARCHER
dps: 92,438.69
atkspd: 1.82
duration: 1.9

319,652.99

TOTEMS
dps: 15,521.4
atkspd: 3.72
duration: 1.9
totems: 4

438,821.02

1,658,349.11 total dps per pod.



now with a synth bow. we'll do it with the +1 socketed implicit. keep in mind this forces you to use empower 4, which is not the best support for TR already.

so mods on this bow will be +2 socketed bow gems, +1 socketed gems, non ailment chaos damage over time, attack speed and attack speed with rare/unique.
basically same as elder bow, but just +1 gems instead of vicious proj, and the +1 implicit.

LINK
mirage archer, void manip, efficacy, swift affliction, empower 4

MYSELF
dps: 100,154.2
atkspd: 5.07
duration: 1.9

964,785.41

MIRAGE ARCHER
dps: 89,137.24
atkspd: 2.03
duration: 1.9

343,802.33

TOTEMS
dps: 15,878.2
atkspd: 3.35
duration: 2.04
totems: 4

434,046.48

1,742,634.22 total dps per pod.


alright so i was wrong, must have mis calculated something somewhere. it is very slightly more dps. 84,285.11 more dps to be exact but it also costs the pretty damn high cost of crafting that bow compared to the elder bow, as well as having empower lvl 4.

is 84k worth that cost? no chance, in my opinion.

"

xMustard wrote:

is 84k worth that cost? no chance, in my opinion.

I believe it is worth, not because of the DPS, but the 10% attack speed improvement and the much less mana needed. 10% less attack speed is a difference you can feel... Like use one and the next and go out and run some maps... speed makes the build feel GOOD. It sucks to build mana, but it's necessary. Less mana needed means it's easier to get other stats.

These are massive QoL improvements, which is what makes it worthwhile. The fact that it comes with a DPS increase is like a bonus. I'd take DPS DECREASES to get these QoL improvements. With a bow this strong, the build is not hurting for damage, the QoL improvements will be more meaningful overall.

"

xMustard wrote:

conc effect (way more dmg than empower 4)

Uhh.... no. No! So this is making your PoB comparison closer than it should be, you shouldn't use conc effect, and I'll explain why.
AoE is an extremely strong DPS multiplier for toxic rain, as it increases probability of overlapping DoTs from the arrows you fire.

At base, TR is 5 arrows that can fall in an area, and the area of each DOT is exactly half of that area. Increased AoE does not change the area where the pods land, but it does change the area that the DoT of each pod affects.

What this means is that at 100% increased AoE (if you have no +arrows,) the radius of the circle the pods can land and the radius of the DoT effect are the same... so wherever the pods land, the DoT radius will overlap the center. So at the center all 5 pods will overlap with 100% AoE. As you add arrows, the area in which the pods can land increases, but the DoT radius stays the same, so you gain an additional pod, but decrease probability of overlap. Adding 1 arrow to 6 pods is +20% damage for the additional pod, but a reduction in probability of overlap such that overall damage increase is somewhere around 7% for the first arrow, and then decreases for each additional arrow. There comes a point where it's an overall single target damage loss to add arrows, but I don't have that modeled.

At 0% increased AoE you're overlapping less than 3 pods on average in the center, I don't know exactly, it can be tested in PvP with CI to know exactly, but it's around 2.5 pods overlapping on average. So at 0% you're overlapping about 2.5 pods and at 100% you're overlapping 5... so like double... That's convenient! increased AoE % is very similar to just being a more damage % at ~ 1:1 scaling.

Because AoE is an extremely high value multiplier, the 30% less AoE from conc effect offsets it's high MORE damage multiplier, such that it's overall net damage increase is really poor for a support gem. Conc effect is like 8th or 9th best damage link. It only looks good in PoB. If you actually try other links you'll see that efficacy and increased AoE are noticeable improvements over conc effect, and Empower 4 is even better than those.

Also, you don't need to do all the total damage calculation if your other factors are kept equal. The DoT damage and the APS and mana are all that change from the synth and elder bow comparison. total damage will change proportionally.

"

Increased AoE does not change the area where the pods land, but it does change the area that the DoT of each pod affects.

incorrect. inc area does increase the area with which the pods can land. as does extra projectiles.

also, i have no mana issues because im personally a trickster using EB so no issues there. i can easily use quill rain with no issues.

and a difference of 0.5 attacks per second is a decent difference, its hardly noticeable. you can also make this up in other ways with different gear choices.

anyway, to each their own. i will probably always prefer elder bows for toxic rain setups because its just much easier and cheaper to pull off.