Chris Wilson's 2019 gdc presentation - merge if already posted.

"

jereth308 wrote:

See the problem is GGG doesn't care if they release bad content, because they're so confident that players will come back even if this league is a bust. They know players will come back on the next one.

To be fair the map tab issues have zero impact on league players, so its a safe bet league players will return for the next league as they don't experience those problems.

Its funny how some people get mad when they are told the truth. I think Chris was pretty honest, telling some things that people dont like to hear.

I feel like you prefer to be lied and hear the same bs that most companies tell to their fans.

"

jereth308 wrote:

See the problem is GGG doesn't care if they release bad content, because they're so confident that players will come back even if this league is a bust. They know players will come back on the next one.

There's some truth to this, Chris even said as much in the presentation. At around the 40 minute mark he starts to talk about some more "controversial lessons". He essentially says that with the 13 week cycle they've adopted they have to pick a point in the development they believe is 'good enough'. He goes on to say that they try to put the quality in the the right places - "Polish the things that matter and don't care about the stuff that doesn't matter".

It goes on about needing developers that understand what matters and how very few actually do understand and about how they involve the player base for testing and so on.

"

Kellog wrote:

It goes on about needing developers that understand what matters and how very few actually do understand and about how they involve the player base for testing and so on.

Is the bolded part Chris admitting publicly it hasn't been a fluke we all beta-test the game for at least 2 weeks every time a new league is launched?

"

Asmosis wrote:

Watched the whole thing, thanks for posting this.

My main take-away from the end of it is that the main league content is aimed at the top 1% exclusively, which matches my experience with leagues getting burned out before being able to complete the advertised new stuff.

That puts me squarely in the audience that's supposed to watch streamers do the high end stuff (T1 crafts in this league) and foolishly hope that i could do the same.

....

So that's pretty much killed any motivation i have to play this league or any future ones, since i know its just a pattern that will repeat. All the headline content is really only there for the streamers as advertising material for their audience. I've fallen for that dangling carrot one too many times.

What do you need that for? You can beat every boss in game with cheap GC mines/ winter orb and other fire and forget builds. Thats the problem with this game. They made power creep so strong there is no point to those tri implict super duper items. They are certainly not means to an end. Purely superfluous and/or bragging rights.

Then they stack major tedium to get there. I say not worth. When I started this game you basically had to have GG gear to beat uber atziri and other high end contents. Now there is no point in hunt from a utility perspective.

"

鬼殺し wrote:

"

intersept wrote:

How you crate this you say ?

LOL. Sorry, was I the only one to see this?

Your obsession on the seemingly purposeful, but I expect completely ignorant, butchering of English language and spelling will lead, ultimately, to MADNESS! MADNESSSSSSS I SAY!

Anyway - the discussion was interesting and really pulled back the curtain for the rest of us.

I've said it a couple of times already, but one cannot begrudge a designer maximizing profits from their product.

I CAN have a low level of disappointment that I am no longer the target audience of my once beloved game. I prefer more plodding, single-player focused, loot-focused ARPGs. The loot factor is still in PoE, which is the last of 2 hooks that faintly keeps me around (the other being my enjoyment of playing and leveling different builds). However, the run-and-gun-play-more-to-loot-more, but make sure you trade, construct of the game is on a tangent from my playstyle.

I remember trying to play the old Lineage grindfest with the 0.000001% good gear drop chances. I actually tried for a while, then realized the treadmill was not my style.

The affirmation of PoE's gaming direction makes me a little sad, but in this case I think a lot of us oldschool ARPG-ers will go quietly into the night - or already have.

"

coatofarms wrote:

"

Kellog wrote:

It goes on about needing developers that understand what matters and how very few actually do understand and about how they involve the player base for testing and so on.

Is the bolded part Chris admitting publicly it hasn't been a fluke we all beta-test the game for at least 2 weeks every time a new league is launched?

no he said they specifically hired players to work for them because players know what the other players want, the fact we beta test for 2 weeks is inevitably because they are under time constraints and things require tuning in most cases.

I'm trying to remember the last league that didn't need tuning because the first couple of weeks were busted, Breach was pretty solid, so was Incursion if I remember... Harbinger/Betrayal/Synth/Delve/Bestiary all needed substantial improvements early on... Abyss was fine as long as you didn't want any bosses.

In most cases I can forgive them for getting it wrong as its the nature of an experiment but early synth rewards and delve sulphite problems were so obvious they never should have made it in and those kind of mistakes frustrate me.

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

"

coatofarms wrote:

"

Kellog wrote:

It goes on about needing developers that understand what matters and how very few actually do understand and about how they involve the player base for testing and so on.

Is the bolded part Chris admitting publicly it hasn't been a fluke we all beta-test the game for at least 2 weeks every time a new league is launched?

no he said they specifically hired players to work for them because players know what the other players want, the fact we beta test for 2 weeks is inevitably because they are under time constraints and things require tuning in most cases.

There is kind of misunderstanding of players population and this explains problems with not comfortable mechanics, lack of balance, surprising nerfs etc.
Companies like GGG sometimes hire players. But those are not casual players, not average players - they are typically pro-gamers - they make money on playing games in professional manner. They are often streamers, no-lifers, spending with a game 10-14 hours daily, 5-7 days per week. Their expectations are massively different from normal players which do not play for money but just for entertainment, on more or less casual bases.

"

Aim_Deep wrote:

What do you need that for? You can beat every boss in game with cheap GC mines/ winter orb and other fire and forget builds. Thats the problem with this game. They made power creep so strong there is no point to those tri implict super duper items. They are certainly not means to an end. Purely superfluous and/or bragging rights.

Then they stack major tedium to get there. I say not worth. When I started this game you basically had to have GG gear to beat uber atziri and other high end contents. Now there is no point in hunt from a utility perspective.

Different people play the game for different reasons.

I play ARPG's (and RPG's) mostly for the itemisation and character building, so bosses don't factor into it at all. The idea of playing meta-cheese is almost insulting.

Chris covered this in the presentation too.

Honestly it was an amazing presentation, it would have taken anyone else 4-5 hours to cover what he did in 45 minutes. (talking literally twice as fast as the average presenter helped lol).

"

Mark___75 wrote:

There is kind of misunderstanding of players population and this explains problems with not comfortable mechanics, lack of balance, surprising nerfs etc.
Companies like GGG sometimes hire players. But those are not casual players, not average players - they are typically pro-gamers - they make money on playing games in professional manner. They are often streamers, no-lifers, spending with a game 10-14 hours daily, 5-7 days per week. Their expectations are massively different from normal players which do not play for money but just for entertainment, on more or less casual bases.

Pros do have different views to casuals but most of the things on your list bother you whichever group your in and most of peoples core problems with leagues share commonality between groups.

They can disagree on balance, but you'll find plenty of people that disagree on balance even within the smallest segments of the playerbase.