So there was a race and here are my thoughts about it

As a certifiable old codger, I find this topic ironically amusing.

In the hierarchy of dangerous extreme activities, a marathon video game stream doesn't even register as a blip. As many folks have mentioned previously, the average footballer takes on more health risk with every game they play than a PoE race to 100.

Is it a healthy activity? Of course not. Is it dangerous? I can think of many, many common activities that are way worse.

Also, these are adults.

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Kaia_PP wrote:

I am sure that must be why the entertainment industry (or any industry for that matter) isn't at all regulated and we let people destroy themselves on traditional and new media without a say. Oh. wait. No it's absolute tosh and we completely have regulations to both protect workers in the entertainment industry in the exercise of their job as well as the viewership so that they don't get a bad example to follow.

Also, you do realize this is a video game and as such is mostly played by underage people. Not that the age should be a reason to not protect them.

Also i think you're under the false impression that streamers actually enjoy losing ungodly amounts of sleep to have a chance in that ratrace.

You compare what i wish for GGG to help implement to what China does as a government, which sort of proves you missed my point entirely and should maybe give it a second readeroo.

You're also wrong about your assessment that only one kid every died from overly long video game sessions. Edumacate yourself on the topic via google.

That is not the point though, I think the responsability of offering a framework to avoid health hazards in those events lies with the provider of private leagues. GGG should provide the technology to implement the means to limit the length of race sittings.

Your first paragraph makes no sense and I have no idea what you are talking about or referring to.

Also, the China reference was hyperbole, in case you didn't notice. But then in your last paragraph you actually go so far as to say GGG should provide tools to limit playtime. The irony.

It wasn't a kid that died in that internet cafe, it was an adult. P.S. Just referencing google is the epitome of lazy. Citation needed.

At any rate, I am a huge proponent of personal accountability, and don't enjoy people skulking around wishing to put "regulations" on everything and anything.

That personal accountability extends to parents of kids playing video games too. I have children, and I take full accountability with what they do online and on a computer. You wouldn't need an ESRB if parents weren't lazy and actually paid attention to the games kids are playing.

If you truly think it is mostly underage people playing video games, as you say, maybe you should go on a crusade to edumacate parents about what their kids are playing, and for how long, apparently, rather than the developer of the game itself. Call it MAKOPVG - Moms Against Kids Over Playing Video Games.

P.S. There is very little in this world I care about less than streamers, so you are barking up the wrong tree here. They've chosen their career, just like I did mine - now deal.

What are you guys racing for King Aila already won it all like a week ago as first to 100 SSFHC... The only race that matters.




This must be like "special Olympics" for old guys who cant compete with 4 races GGG sets up every league...SSFHC, SSF, HC, SC.

Me I play a couple hrs a week and when I have time... May make 90 this league.

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DivineChampion wrote:

It is so exiting to watch who eventually will click winter orb more and sleep less.

Spoiler

not really

Basically this.
The most exciting thing about a 100 race is have the ranking open on a webpage and laugh when someone who played for 60 hours in 72 hours time RIP. See group races like this to 100 is actually the most boring thing I've seen in PoE community.
I watch a lot of streams, I'm a Nugi fan, but seriously seeing him play in these races I just swap to someone else who is actually enjoying himself or herself.

It's beyond me how someone can just start an new character after ripping, playing for 3 days long, it' almost looks inhuman. I don't like watching robots, who are actually humans in disguise shortening their lives for a video game.

We have no control over what other people want to do to themselves. What we can do is not watch them so they don't feel the need to do it again. But the opposite happens, I heard Ziz gained like 500 subs just by starting the race. So it's actually us encouraging them to try to kill themselves.

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RTC_ wrote:

your post, OP, is the equivalent of telling a marathon runner to stop running marathons because you think it might hurt his knees and hip joints, or telling a boxer to stop boxing because it could potentially result in broken bones and concussions.

you're a buzzkill and i hope nobody listens to what you have to say.

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Is it a healthy activity? Of course not. Is it dangerous? I can think of many, many common activities that are way worse.

Also, these are adults.

Yes, so I am quoting you but I have seen similar arguments made. Those are clear false equivalencies.

Besides the fact that I think you're very brave to compare a POE gamer to a pro boxer, other professions may be inherently more hazardous than streamer. It's true that a boxer climbing on a ring does so (one can hope) knowing that he will eventually hurt himself, suffer long term trauma, and so on. It is par for the course as the core of that profession is to punch somebody in the mouff. A lumberjack will statistically suffer injuries at some point in his career. No matter what you do in those professions, you WILL get hurt.

Where it becomes a false equivalency is that the streamer profession or more generally the activity of playing video games is NOT inherently hazardous to your health. One does not expect to die, suffer traumas and other injuries, short or long term from that activity. It is not normal, not par for the course.

This argument if you can call it that has no logic, it is completely bankrupt, in the same way that previously on this thread some brave soul suggested that one risks his life every morning waking up and driving a car to work. With this type of stance, you go down a very silly rabbit hole where the end has you saying that life is death and every action is a hazard.

Top-tier athletes may, during the course of their career, damage their bodies in the constant pursuit of the record setting performance. It doesn't mean that they encourage hazardous practices in their life. A rally driver will still wear a helmet and tie his seat belt no matter if it may impede his performance. Boxers wear gloves to dampen the trauma, lumberjacks wear helmets. The fact that streamers may want to be competitive and push themselves does not mean they should have to play games for 35+ hours straight.

So to be clear, i don't think you can compare inherently dangerous activities to the act of playing video games. Streamer or otherwise, it should not be dangerous. That is what motivates me in saying that those races are irresponsible from the point of view of the organizers and from the point of view of GGG who, by not objecting, associates itself, its product and its services to an event that is damaging to the health of streamers.

and finally, those may be adults, but it doesn't mean anything. Adults are not exempt from acting responsively, quite the opposite i would argue. When a streamer shows a terrible example to hundreds of kids on the internet, I don't give a shit that he is an adult, or that i am a buzzkill, it's not cool, it's not ok.

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"But kaia they have a choice" argument

It's a fallacy, there are not that many races in POE at the moment, official or otherwise. For a streamer, it's clearly a way to increase its viewership, subscriptions and general brand presence.

Therefore, any race that comes around, streamers WILL line up for it trying to win. If in order to win it's expected of you to play for 50+ hours when a 5hour nap in between, then you do what you must.

So it's not really a choice. Maybe some of you are not on the job market yet, but those who are know you don't really have the choice to wake up and go to work. It's implied that if you want to eat and provide for your family, you get up and work maybe in spite of your boss being an ass, your job being not rewarding enough, your wage not what you imagined, etc.

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We have no control over what other people want to do to themselves. What we can do is not watch them so they don't feel the need to do it again. But the opposite happens, I heard Ziz gained like 500 subs just by starting the race. So it's actually us encouraging them to try to kill themselves.

I hear you, but i think it wouldn't take very much to change that. I think that if GGG steps in.

If GGG provides the tools to protect racers as part of their private leagues services (see my OP)and says that it's not OK with their brand and product being associated with events that damage their player's health, then it will be a good incentive for organizers like Method to, in the future, not make the same mistake in organizing a race again.

I agree with you also on the fact that ultimately, it seems like it is more about unhealthy voyeurism than it is about actual sportsmanship (or anything else). hear hear, come see {insert streamer name} become a senseless zombie and destroy it's health for 3-4 days to ultimately crush his soul when he RIPS because of sleep deprivation.

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Also, the China reference was hyperbole, in case you didn't notice. But then in your last paragraph you actually go so far as to say GGG should provide tools to limit playtime. The irony.

You don't win arguments and persuade anyone by using hyperboles. It doesn't come as much of a surprise that the rest of your arguments doesn't make much sense.

Never mind - this is pointless.

Hyperbole is a perfectly acceptable and elegant discussion method - however it does not work on people who cannot see irony or understand satire in any form - and people who cannot are dangerous to our society.

You pulled out one irrelevant point from my rebuttal, which just shows you have no point, no facts beyond poor, tired streamers, and a personal crusade to virtue signal about your flavor of the month concern.

Go save someone who actually needs saving.

I'd prefer to see a racing environment where the race window is significantly longer than would be needed to reach the goal, but where the deciding factor for who wins is the shortest total time /played.

If someone wants to binge 30 hours, they can.

If someone wants to play 5-10 hours at a time and get plenty of sleep, they can.

Upon hitting 100, that character's total time /played is added up and placed on a leaderboard.

I think it would be interesting to see if/how this changed the results. I think it would come down to who has the best strategy/game knowledge and I personally find that a lot more interesting than who can stay up the longest.

I don't think instituting an arbitrary cap on how much play is "allowed" per day is a good idea. Instead, create a playing field that allows for more flexibility and give people options. Some people might still choose the 30-hour push, and that's on them. Being able to make that kind of decision is part of the privilege of adulthood.

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Katalaeia wrote:

I'd prefer to see a racing environment where the race window is significantly longer than would be needed to reach the goal, but where the deciding factor for who wins is the shortest total time /played.

If someone wants to binge 30 hours, they can.

If someone wants to play 5-10 hours at a time and get plenty of sleep, they can.

Upon hitting 100, that character's total time /played is added up and placed on a leaderboard.

I think it would be interesting to see if/how this changed the results. I think it would come down to who has the best strategy/game knowledge and I personally find that a lot more interesting than who can stay up the longest.

I don't think instituting an arbitrary cap on how much play is "allowed" per day is a good idea. Instead, create a playing field that allows for more flexibility and give people options. Some people might still choose the 30-hour push, and that's on them. Being able to make that kind of decision is part of the privilege of adulthood.

I think that would be a rather elegant solution were it not a real time game. I'm reminded of dungeon crawler stone soup races where you have a "real time race" and a "turn count race"... but it is a turn based game, not an arpg ;/ Not sure people would be very interested in watching this format you're suggesting.

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Fapmobile wrote:

Pretty good post.

I somewhat agree but I still think adults should take care of themselves instead of gaming companies babysitting them.
If they play 24 hours a day, it's on them.

In addition, was this not a player organized race? All the organizers would have to do is set a time limit per 24 hour segment. I cant imagine this would be hard to enforce.

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Kaia_PP wrote:

Not sure people would be very interested in watching this format you're suggesting.

I guess I see it differently. I would think it would be easier to watch a streamer's full run to 100 if I didn't need to sacrifice my own sleep/job/etc. to do it.

Others might not mind making that kind of commitment. I can only speak for myself.