Acrobatics and phase acrobatics is a "noob trap" or is good on evasion build?

"

Sony_Black wrote:

"

mibuwolf wrote:

"

FinalBossSC wrote:

evasion isn't random

Well, that seems very odd... (I have other choice of words in mind, but w/e)

...but ok. Sure is weird to have it that way. Based on that info, then I guess pure evasion kinda sucks due to the fact you will more than likely not be able to take the hit once it lands. Maybe if you stacked enough hp? Maybe?

Still seems like combo of armor/evasion would be prevalent.

Actually extra big hits won't be negated by armor either. The % you see in the defence tab when you press 'c' is the reduction against an average enemy of your own lvl. But if oyu take a bigger hit than that average your armor will reduce it less (in the mechanics topic you can find the formula - the bigger the hit the smaller the % reduction from armor), so e.g. against Brutus armor won't give you much reduction at all (it would be almost the same as if you went agaisnt him naked)

So you need a lot of life either way, it doesnt matter if you go Eva or Armor (though it is often easier to stack life on an armor based build because you need str to equip you armor which givey you life as well).

I'm quite interested in an eva + acro build but whenever i plan one so many points go for defence (more than for my other builds) that i'm in a far worse offensive position than with other bilds (not using acrobatics).
Though i think it could still work.
For the OP maybe you want a build without acrobatics for your first char to have more freedom for your equipment (with acro you are almost limited to eva only items), which can be quite important for your first char.
I would say try to save the best pure eva items you find with other characters (and they need a lot of life!) and go for a acrobatics build with a later character.

thanks for the tips :)

With evasion, even if it works like you said, you can get next situation:
Boss with strong attack 2 minions attack you.

For example, you have 2k hp and 66% evasion. Boss hit you for 1.5k and minions for 400
1 attack (minion)-> evasion, 0 damage
2 attack (minion)-> evasion, 0 damage
3 attack (Boss)-> no evasion, 1.5k damage
4 attack (minion)-> evasion, 0 damage
5 attack (minion)-> evasion, 0 damage
6 attack (Boss)-> no evasion, 1.5k damage

So, even with high evasion you can get almost all damage and die. Numbers can be higher, but in hardcore it means that you die, earlier or later

"

Anthrok wrote:

With evasion, even if it works like you said, you can get next situation:
Boss with strong attack 2 minions attack you.

For example, you have 2k hp and 66% evasion. Boss hit you for 1.5k and minions for 400
1 attack (minion)-> evasion, 0 damage
2 attack (minion)-> evasion, 0 damage
3 attack (Boss)-> no evasion, 1.5k damage
4 attack (minion)-> evasion, 0 damage
5 attack (minion)-> evasion, 0 damage
6 attack (Boss)-> no evasion, 1.5k damage

So, even with high evasion you can get almost all damage and die. Numbers can be higher, but in hardcore it means that you die, earlier or later

I think that evasion works per moster (so the 'minion' hits won't count for the boss so you would still evade one boss hit in your example)

"

Sony_Black wrote:

I think that evasion works per moster (so the 'minion' hits won't count for the boss so you would still evade one boss hit in your example)

If that were true, then armor would seriously be weaker than evasion.

"

mibuwolf wrote:

"

Sony_Black wrote:

I think that evasion works per moster (so the 'minion' hits won't count for the boss so you would still evade one boss hit in your example)

If that were true, then armor would seriously be weaker than evasion.

I'm not 100% sure, but if it would be different how would the game handle it at all? Becasue every enemy has a different chance to hit you (the % written in the defense tab is again only calculated for average enemies)...
And evasion still has the negatve effect that every enemy whit high dex is potentially dangerous, so especially archers can become problematic (and evey mob with the affix 'hits accurately').

I've written some bullshit yesterday hence an edit :)

Evasion entropy removes streaks from evasion. Say with high enough chance do evade you can't be hit consequently by monsters, or with low chance to evade you can't evade consequent attacks.
In terms of incoming damage nothing changed, but evasion become more predictably which is always good with survivability.

But there's a bit of randomness in evasion still.
Initial value of entropy is random number from 0-99 range.
So in small samples you can be hit more/less frequently than your chance to evade (or real chance to evade no matter) should provide.

Say you have 50% chance to evade.
You initial entropy value is set as 60.
You're gonna be hit by first attack (60+50 = 110 over the 100 hit limit), then you will evade next attack (10+50=60) then you will be hit again (60+50 = 110).

Of 3 attacks you were hit 2 times = effective evasion chance is 33% from such small sample.

Of course with 50% evasion chance it can go the other way around. Initial evasion entropy value less then 50 with 50% chance to evade you will be hit 1 times on 3 first attacks.

Either way as the fight progresses with every consequent enemy attack your effective evasion chance will approach your evasion chance from stat sheet (I assume that mobs attack rating is standard for given character level), in given example it's 50%.
Since most mobs in this game hit hard and slow (you can be on low life after those 2 hit in 3 attacks with 50% evasion chance) you may feel that something is still wrong with evasion.
It's not, it is working as intended, the issue is (in my opinion) with mobs damage itself.

As someone who has just redone his evasion/ acrobatics duelist I will have to say acro really isn't worth it.

with the frequency of hits you take from large mobs packs that dominate the game you just don't evade enough damage to stay alive. at 40% evasion 30% dodge and 25% block I was still getting hit entirely to often. evasion builds are entirely to point intensive to be viable in my opinion. you need far to many acro nodes, health nodes and evasion nodes to keep your defenses on par. You are also pigeon holed into the enfeeble curse / blind support if you want to make any head way into the game when you hit merciless.

With the way the evade counter works you need to hit these magic % to hit or the excess evasion is pretty much useless. you want 1 in 10 (10%) 1 in 5 ( 20%) 1 in 3 (33%) etc. To top it off it is unreasonably hard to get past 40% dodge. as a duelist with 300 dex and 20% quality all of level evade gear with 20-80% evade mods I still barely managed 40% evade in my 60s. the to be evasion nodes near me became a waste as they would net me something like 4% for a 70% evasion increase with grace aura on. that leaves me 6% shy of the 50% threshold I would need. Far to much point investment for it be feasible.

Long story short I went to hybrid armor with 3 leather and steel nodes. I have 30% damage reduction with molten shell, 35% evasion (only 5% less than what I has in full evade gear!!!) and 29% block. Best yet I am not pigeon holed into enffeeble curse anymore as I now have actual damage reduction.

"

emitai wrote:

I new on game and 'm trying to build a claw shadow focused on evasion, and i dont know if acrobatics worth it. removiong all armour and energy shield is a bit too much =/

it's a good concept but bad atm...not worth it.

"

Sony_Black wrote:

I think that evasion works per moster (so the 'minion' hits won't count for the boss so you would still evade one boss hit in your example)

That´s wrong. Your/his,it evasion entropy value is changed for every attack you undergo. Only the order in which every roll happens matters.

"

Captain_Catface wrote:

I consider it to be a must for (pure) evasion builds.

Of course, if you intended to go with a mixed armour type it'd be rather bad.

Lol. I don't say this very often but... that is literally the most obvious, unnecessary comment I've ever seen on the forum.

I pray that you don't consider this to be some sort of an insight.