Divination cards for each type of unique jewel (crimson/viridian/cobalt) - a SSF solution

Don't worry, I know that what I would like about threshold jewel ( being options, actual meaningful choices ) isn't realistic at all and I don't think that GGG has any intention of doing that, it was more of a joke to be honest.

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鬼殺し wrote:

As for the future of the game, Fruz...what little I do know of 4.0 indicates to me it's going to be well worth sticking around for. But for all your current doomsaying and pessimism, I think you knew that already. After all, what exactly does it cost you to do just that? ;)

I'm sure you know that I was not that pessimmistic couple of months ago.

Unfortunately, the balance decision (@skill rework) are really things that go a pretty different way from what how it kind of used to be imho.
I mean, it's not everything of course, plus I have some IRL things to consider obviously, but it's still quite a thing to me.
They added great things, and many parts of the game have been significantly improve, don't get me wrong, but the very balancing of skills going this direction ? hmhmmhmmmmmmm
( Many unpolished things are bothering me too tbh ).
I also think that this much power creep cannot last indefinitely without PoE eventually just completely running out of breath.

I will surely give it a look to see how it is I think, time is the only thing that it could cost me ( and sometimes it's quite a lot to be honest haha ), it would apparently be a pity not to !

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Fruz wrote:

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RPGNoobANKA wrote:

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vmt80 wrote:

'entitled'

I do not think I am entitled in wanting to have a realistic chance long-term in a PERMANENT SSF (Standard) league for a threshold jewel (eg Spreading Rot).

Yes, you are.

Spoiler

[...]

I don't know where you got these from. But I actually went through my SSF Standards tabs for Spreading Rot Jewels and found 4. 4 that are not corrupted. So the corrupted you linked are not from my SSF Standard tabs.

Also, this is just Spreading Rot, I've could have also picked any other, that I actually do not have ... thus a coincidence. Further, my SSF Standard Stash collection this is from playing SSF Incursion and Delve intensely for a casual (?half of the league, ~3hrs a day?) Last time I played trade league was Beastiary. Betrayal SSF I only managed to level a char to maps because of physical and mental illness (cancer).

I am also sure GGG knows the stats in SSF (skills, playtime, retention).

I am just peeved that, as already explained, SSF is a "Verified" badge for trade league players who don't trade. And I am of the view (opinion) that it is a missed opportunity for GGG to re-work to some extent the SSF experience to appeal to a niche that is turned off by trade league as a whole experience and the ecosystem. Read the recent Betrayal statistics and GGG acknowledging again that players play for efficiency (farming Harbour Bridge), not the end game - at least enough people do that that they think it is worth mentioning. Not that they are not aware of the problem ( ”The problem with players is that if something is the most efficient thing to do, they’ll do it because they say they’re forced to do it, and also complain that it’s boring.” https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/10/10/the-pain-of-designing-path-of-exiles-exquisite-balance-of-restriction-and-reward/ ).

Please don't get me wrong, whilst talking about 'entitlement' in SSF I was referring to a curious fact: nobody really likes trading that much. It is one of those features people constantly complain about. I do appreciate dedicated games. What is off-putting is how rng-gated different builds often are in PoE if you want to try them out at all in SSF, then of course, that is unless you are willing to trade. See, the same curious attitude also dictates it is for some reason not 'entitlement' if you go the easy route trading for all your gear. Like I said, to me and many other ARPG fans that is actually very off-putting. To me there is no reason to feel excitement for gear drops if I have to trade them away and get what my builds need from other players. It's a fine line between feasibility and outright shutting off entire builds.

Time and again there is a common interpretation that people not enjoying certain features in a game makes them 'entitled'. You can extent the same attitude for Niko not granting enough fuel to delve, or certain crafting material dropping so seldom that SSF player is virtually half-way shut out from crafting. I mean yeah, you can argue for building tedious features into a video game but if people play to work instead of having fun, there is a weird conception of why one should play video games at all. Look, if I want to work I can go to my backyard shoveling dirt. I don't need a video game for such things. I already see little point in exalt crafting technique since in SSF you don't realistically drop enough exalts to try them out. Once in a blue moon, maybe. I'm telling it from a perspective of player who has been playing standard SSF for over a year now. I have yet to risk my two dozen exalts which I've hoarded during this time for trying them out. It just honestly begs the question, should I bother at all.

In the end, it is about GGG's monetarization, isn't it. Trade leagues are sold as a product consumers ought to buy, which leaves no room outside trading leagues. But it is not entitlement to not enjoy how certain core aspect is implemented in a game. Yesterday I spent some half a dozen divine orbs or so to reroll my loreweave. I realized there are little crafting options available unless you seriously flip for currency in PoE. Delve eased this quite a lot for SSF yet also sulphite is gated behind rng quota. So no, I do not think such key feature in a game as 'crafting' is either an entitlement or unattainable. That's just plain stupid way of thinking, which is that casuals let alone SSF players shouldn't have a shot of enjoying game mechanics put into a game, because that would entitle them to actually use crafting system. Many games these days have a crafting system, you know. It took me, what, two months of farming all those divs? I still couldn't roll that max 80 elemental resists, so I guess I'll grind for another three months to try out again. That's not really a crafting option. I know, there are many issues in PoE which have made me want to put it aside altogether, so I could've been a lot more 'efficient'. I don't know, maybe should try out Galactic Civ. There are after all games which actually let you try out their features and have some fun with them without any monetization schemes limiting gameplay so drastically or constantly needing external sites just to know what you are doing in game. And sure, divining a loreweave did feel like necessary use of orbs at the time. I finally managed to win bad rng getting 79 max res so I guess that will do. Don't ask what other things I've gone through to enable SSF builds I've got. Six-linking items is still easy compared to all this rng shit.

By the way, acquiring loreweave was fun as itself. At least you knew you were steadily making progress towards it drop by drop. There was rng but it was not the type of hopeless rng I'm talking about. It was a reasonable goal to put effort in.

I don't think anything should be done with only SSF in mind. It's not balanced around at all but obviously there will be some things that benefit it more than trade leagues especially if it's deterministic or otherwise farmable. The underlying reason for a game addition should be that it makes the game better in general.

In regards to more skill threshold jewel options in A5, I'd go the route of making them awarded based on the class a la skill gem rewards. All or at least most threshold jewels should be available through the A5 quest reward even if a given jewel is limited to just a couple classes. The D3 rune comparison is very apt.

As far as div cards go, it's still up to players who buy the div cards what they want done. Something that alleviates the OP's issues would be cards that either gave a specific type of unique jewel (crimson, etc) or a single card that gives a threshold jewel. Either option would improve the game as a whole in my opinion.

Hm, I wonder if it would be possible to more directly crowd fund div cards... but then we might get swamped with them or GGG would have to be more strict with their process and results.

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RPGNoobANKA wrote:

I don't know where you got these from. But I actually went through my SSF Standards tabs for Spreading Rot Jewels and found 4. 4 that are not corrupted. So the corrupted you linked are not from my SSF Standard tabs.

One can only link item from one's stash/character, those are of course mine ( I might have others somewhere, or I might have vendored others, not completely sure ).

My point was that you eventually get those, and you don't need them to start playing the build. They are a big power boost alright, but you can still play the build and upgrade your dps once you get one, and then another.

Elemental hit jewels would be different though.


So again, it's doable, it eventually happens, but I having cards to farm a specific jewel base ( even though I don't think it would change much ) would not hurt the game imo, especially if reserved to certain layouts, I think it is even a good idea.

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Fruz wrote:

There is no SSF-solution, SSF isn't the standard for balancing the game, it is no more than a self chosen challenge.

Is there a standard for balancing in this mess what poe has became? I would like to hear about that. Can you elaborate? Im a mere mortal who cant grasp the grand scheme of things. All i can see is GGG throwing random crap into the game without improving things that could be easily fixed. Like this one.

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vmt80 wrote:

I just find it curious how those who actually wanted to loot their gear and make the game balanced around playing the game should be seen 'entitled' while this was the case with every single ARPG from the beginning of time, rightfully so.

+1 Well said.

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Motopsycho wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

There is no SSF-solution, SSF isn't the standard for balancing the game, it is no more than a self chosen challenge.

Is there a standard for balancing in this mess what poe has became? I would like to hear about that. Can you elaborate? Im a mere mortal who cant grasp the grand scheme of things. All i can see is GGG throwing random crap into the game without improving things that could be easily fixed. Like this one.

It's very simple : GGG sees the economy as one of the fundamental elements of the game, they balance everything around the fact that people can trade.

SSF was only added because some people were already choosing to cut themselves from the trading community and they were fine to give those people some kind of recognition/bragging rights, that's it.
There is nothing more to it.


So .. something that would benefit trading leagues (and SSF leagues) ? Sure, why not, this thread's suggestion would benefit players in trading leagues without having too much of an impact on the market imo.
That isn't and "SSF solution", there will never be an "SSF solution", SSF is not a problem, merely a self-imposed choice.

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Fruz wrote:

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Motopsycho wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

There is no SSF-solution, SSF isn't the standard for balancing the game, it is no more than a self chosen challenge.

Is there a standard for balancing in this mess what poe has became? I would like to hear about that. Can you elaborate? Im a mere mortal who cant grasp the grand scheme of things. All i can see is GGG throwing random crap into the game without improving things that could be easily fixed. Like this one.

It's very simple : GGG sees the economy as one of the fundamental elements of the game, they balance everything around the fact that people can trade.

SSF was only added because some people were already choosing to cut themselves from the trading community and they were fine to give those people some kind of recognition/bragging rights, that's it.
There is nothing more to it.


So .. something that would benefit trading leagues (and SSF leagues) ? Sure, why not, this thread's suggestion would benefit players in trading leagues without having too much of an impact on the market imo.
That isn't and "SSF solution", there will never be an "SSF solution", SSF is not a problem, merely a self-imposed choice.

Fruz! I found a thread where I actually agree with you. The title of the thread almost ruins the entirety of content in it because like Fruz and some others have certainly pointed out SSF is not due any "solutions." I think enough people agree there. But ya, base specific div cards, why not.