Can this game do better for long time players somehow?

I hope I'm not alone in feeling this way, but I have to be honest here: the main thing that causes me to lose interest and stop playing is the paradox between loving all the interesting builds and in-depth choices we can make... and actually leveling new characters and rolling through the campaign again. The only interesting choice in the campaign is which bandits to help, but the rest of it is just so dull for those of us who have done it 50+, 100+, or even well beyond that many times. I wish there was a way--even if I had to do it every new league--to unlock the ability to start new characters with the campaign complete, level 70, and just choose my bandits. I wouldn't even complain if such characters were utterly naked of equipment and ascendancies. I can take care of those.

I guess if I were to put this in a different way, this game feels like it has the same problem many MMOs do in that the early game is really dull and tedious, so it feels like such a pointless time sink to take characters from new to "playable." For example, if you start a new character in WoW, FF14, Tera, etc., the entire leveling process is entirely moot for people who already know how to play the game. It's just an arbitrary time sink because those games want to bleed out subscription time. Hell, I'd even be okay with an alternate option to get into the post-campaign game. Perhaps an endless dungeon that scales with you so you can have a different leveling experience could break up the monotony (though not the pointlessness) of early-mid leveling.

One thing that comes to mind is Dungeons and Dragons Online, a game that suffers from severe pay-to-win issues (that I don't wish upon this game), but it had one really nice feature. For the longest time it had a level cap of 20, but you could make a one time purchase of the ability to start at level 7 with some okay-ish starting gear. I'd like something similar, but the exact implementation and whether it's paid for or not isn't something I'm quite so picky about. I'd just like to actually start my new characters when I start new characters. This arbitrary process of grinding through the campaign every time is just so tiresome.

Anyone else feel similar? Maybe have other ideas about it?

I find early game more fun than mindless mapping and farming. Really wish there were more Acts and locations.

I feel much the same way you do about this game - I get where you are coming from and agree with your OP.

The leveling process feels so generic and character choice feels pretty much meaningless until you ascend.

My problem with this game goes a bit further in that I really don't like mapping at all. Once my characters are able to start mapping, I find it feels way to grindy to hold my interest.

My interest is really piqued at around the time I hit the 2nd lab, but tapers off sharply when I get to the mapping grind.

Good post OP - I feel you.

As a person who creates their own builds and theory-crafts them, you can imagine that I go through a lot of having to create new characters and bringing them to the 70s range when I can start utilizing the new build.

I can see how it is a bit tedious to some, but honestly, you can get your character to 70 within a respectable amount of time. Even if you aren't the best player, if you know what you are doing and are even just a casual player at that, you can still get to level 70 under 10 hours. I would consider myself just a casual/serious player and I can get a level 70 character under 10 hours without really trying.

Maybe some people don't have the patience? I don't know, but 10 hours is laughably short for leveling in an RPG. RPGs are meant for you to grind, do they not?

If they ever decide to throw in that option to pay to get a naked level 70 character, I wouldn't mind, but I know myself that I wouldn't use money or whatever currency at hand to just get one. Why use money when I can just grind less than 10 hours of off and on casual playing to get a level 70 character? It becomes even easier if you have leveling gear.

So my final verdict is, if they add it sure, if they don't, it doesn't matter to me. I wouldn't use the service anyways. The grind is so short even though it can be tedious.

hmmm... why u guys feel that way?

if u exclude scion, there are 6 base classes.

each base class has 3 ascendancies.

this means u can create 18 different builds.

with these 18 builds, u can choose to go either spells or attack. this means 36 builds.

out of this 36 options, u can choose to go another 5 options, either physical, fire, lightning, ice, or chaos. this means 180 builds.

with 180 builds, u can chose either 8 of these options: self cast, totem, minion, brand, melee, range, traps, or mines. this means 1440 builds.

with 1440 builds, u can also go crit based, or CoC, or CwC, or EQ, or life build, or es build or block build, or many other options.

there are very few games in this world that gives u so many choices.

why do u feel the game is tedious, or not fun or feel dull?

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stkmro wrote:

hmmm... why u guys feel that way?

if u exclude scion, there are 6 base classes.

each base class has 3 ascendancies.

this means u can create 18 different builds.

with these 18 builds, u can choose to go either spells or attack. this means 36 builds.

out of this 36 options, u can choose to go another 5 options, either physical, fire, lightning, ice, or chaos. this means 180 builds.

with 180 builds, u can chose either 8 of these options: self cast, totem, minion, brand, melee, range, traps, or mines. this means 1440 builds.

with 1440 builds, u can also go crit based, or CoC, or CwC, or EQ, or life build, or es build or block build, or many other options.

there are very few games in this world that gives u so many choices.

why do u feel the game is tedious, or not fun or feel dull?

because oyu talk about builds and not about lvling ?

the only reason why i skip most leagues is because i hate lvling and get to 150+ atlas...

give me an option to get to 150+ atlas + lvl 70 char per league and i would play every league but every 3 month start from zero ? no way lol

Hmmm. I understand your point. My friend also speak the same.
it depend on GGG team anyway. i'm fine with both.

"

Bakuhakubasugasu wrote:

As a person who creates their own builds and theory-crafts them, you can imagine that I go through a lot of having to create new characters and bringing them to the 70s range when I can start utilizing the new build.

I can see how it is a bit tedious to some, but honestly, you can get your character to 70 within a respectable amount of time. Even if you aren't the best player, if you know what you are doing and are even just a casual player at that, you can still get to level 70 under 10 hours. I would consider myself just a casual/serious player and I can get a level 70 character under 10 hours without really trying.

Maybe some people don't have the patience? I don't know, but 10 hours is laughably short for leveling in an RPG. RPGs are meant for you to grind, do they not?

If they ever decide to throw in that option to pay to get a naked level 70 character, I wouldn't mind, but I know myself that I wouldn't use money or whatever currency at hand to just get one. Why use money when I can just grind less than 10 hours of off and on casual playing to get a level 70 character? It becomes even easier if you have leveling gear.

So my final verdict is, if they add it sure, if they don't, it doesn't matter to me. I wouldn't use the service anyways. The grind is so short even though it can be tedious.

Well, some builds go smoother than others, but it's generally not too hard either way. However, let's use your 10 hours figure for a moment. If I want to play 20 characters in one league, that's 200 hours of doing non-content and tedious/boring play to get to where I can finally *start* those characters. Maybe it might be more tolerable if base movement was faster, if support gems didn't have level requirements and many of them weren't so late in the campaign (some being act 3 or 4, for example), and maybe the campaign just scaled with you and you could begin mapping as soon as you made the character so that you could alternate your activities to mix it up...

I don't know. There are probably tons of ways to go about it, but this issue really does drag me down and is the chief reason I have quit and returned so many times. It's not the throw-your-hands-up rage quit kind of thing, but instead a quiet, simultaneously bored and frustrated quit that makes you set the game aside until you have more patience or a new league starts to (hopefully) offer something fresh enough to justify the groan-inducing slog of going through the campaign for the Nth time. Unfortunately, this time around syndicate (im)balance completely ruins what freshness would otherwise be there, so it's twice as bad.

I was strictly against something like this not long ago. But nowadays, I just can't seem to bring myself to make more than one character each league. And that is 90% because of leveling and 10% because of the lab. After your first character, both these elements (acts and lab) feels like "a chore you just have to do to get to the interesting part".

While I understand most of the arguments behind forcing you to level each character, I just can't leave the thought of this being very old fashioned, or obsolete, if you like.

Leveling your first character through the acts in a new league is a must. This has to do with racing, experiencing new league content from the get-go and really get the "feel" of a new league. But after you've ascended through Uber Lab, I think they should implement an option skip to the leveling process from 0-60, or add alternatives to the leveling process. Delve would be an interesting choice.

I doubt this will ever happen. And I'm OK with that. But no matter how fast you level, how good you are; after your first or second character, leveling becomes of a chore than an experience.

"

Phrazz wrote:

I was strictly against something like this not long ago. But nowadays, I just can't seem to bring myself to make more than one character each league. And that is 90% because of leveling and 10% because of the lab. After your first character, both these elements (acts and lab) feels like "a chore you just have to do to get to the interesting part".

While I understand most of the arguments behind forcing you to level each character, I just can't leave the thought of this being very old fashioned, or obsolete, if you like.

Leveling your first character through the acts in a new league is a must. This has to do with racing, experiencing new league content from the get-go and really get the "feel" of a new league. But after you've ascended through Uber Lab, I think they should implement an option skip to the leveling process from 0-60, or add alternatives to the leveling process. Delve would be an interesting choice.

I doubt this will ever happen. And I'm OK with that. But no matter how fast you level, how good you are; after your first or second character, leveling becomes of a chore than an experience.

Definitely agree with this part. I wouldn't want something like this to become a "p2w" feature that excludes f2p players from being competitive, or even just people who have played more from doing the same thing for such an arbitrary reason (more time logged).