Syndicate sulphite scarab farming efficiency question

I'm farming low level syndicate encounters to get guilded sulphite scarabs. I've noticed that even if I get Cameria into intervention and ranked up to 3 stars, sometimes it takes a crazy large number of subsequent encounters to get him to lead intervention.

So here's my question: would it be more efficient for me to just raid the safehouse if he's ranked up but NOT leading the division and then letting the whole Intervention team reset, or is it more efficient to grind away until he becomes general so that I can get double scarabs? I'm leaning towards just take the encounter once he's appropriate rank, but perhaps someone has done the math on this?

(meanwhile, I assume it is ALWAYS more efficient to grind away until It That Fled leads research, right?)

I notice the tumbleweeds blowing through this thread. So not one person has any opinion on whether it is more effective to just raid the safehouse once Cameria gets enough rank, or to wait until I can get him into leadership for the extra scarab?


...or is there a handful of you with secret and accurate knowledge regarding which route is better, but you are controlling that information and the scarab market itself like... like... like some sort of syndicate!!!? Aha! I'm on to you!

Haha maybe this will help?

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/abdd26/the_defacto_syndicate_farming_guide/

In general its pretty easy to demote an existing safehouse leader and promote caimeria if hes the only 3 star member however there is so so so much RNG with syndicate that it could take 1 turn to do it or 12.

It is very hard to say what is more profitable in the long term.

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Foogalicious wrote:

I'm farming low level syndicate encounters to get guilded sulphite scarabs. I've noticed that even if I get Cameria into intervention and ranked up to 3 stars, sometimes it takes a crazy large number of subsequent encounters to get him to lead intervention.

So here's my question: would it be more efficient for me to just raid the safehouse if he's ranked up but NOT leading the division and then letting the whole Intervention team reset, or is it more efficient to grind away until he becomes general so that I can get double scarabs? I'm leaning towards just take the encounter once he's appropriate rank, but perhaps someone has done the math on this?

(meanwhile, I assume it is ALWAYS more efficient to grind away until It That Fled leads research, right?)

You've brought up some very interesting points that I don't think a lot of people take into account when they're grinding Syndicate: The value of time. It's the question of "Do I run the safehouse for less value overall, but I can start on the next one faster, or do I delay my next safehouse and go for maximum value".

I don't have all of the data yet, but how hard you work to get someone into position depends how much they increase the safehouse's rewards. I've created a spreadsheet comparing how much each individual member adds vs an alternative starting at around row 24.

In my opinion, you can delay Research by about 20% to get ITF into the command position before you start running into lost expected value, but closer to about 40% if someone like Tora is in the hotseat. For Intervention, you have considerably less margin because so many of them are similar and no single member contributes as large amount to the total value (about 10% generally).

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Nephalim wrote:

In general its pretty easy to demote an existing safehouse leader and promote caimeria if hes the only 3 star member however there is so so so much RNG with syndicate that it could take 1 turn to do it or 12.

It is very hard to say what is more profitable in the long term.

I'm not so sure about this, i typically give it 20 or so runs once the leader i want got 3 ranks, if unwanted current leader doesn't demote i will run it as otherwise the opportunity cost of trying the right order becomes too high imo.

I've had several stubborn bad rng where an unwanted leader just refuses to show up(trusted, many green lines or rivalries), not worth it trying to remove him for 15-20 min even it means only half the reward.

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FathomWheel wrote:

In my opinion, you can delay Research by about 20% to get ITF into the command position before you start running into lost expected value, but closer to about 40% if someone like Tora is in the hotseat. For Intervention, you have considerably less margin because so many of them are similar and no single member contributes as large amount to the total value (about 10% generally).

For intervention, Cameria is significantly more valuable
currently than the others, the cost of gilded sulphite scarab is close to 40c atm.

I don't think 95% of the people playing have any idea how to play the syndicate league or wtf is going on at all when making choices or why you would even make them. I've chosen the same things hundreds of times and still have no idea what the ramifications were other than maybe some cards moved somewhere on the screen for some reason.

At least you know you can get double scarabs somehow.

"

Aim_Deep wrote:

Haha maybe this will help?

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/abdd26/the_defacto_syndicate_farming_guide/

Now we're talking. Doesn't really help much with my particular question really, (it just makes the assumption that you want your fave in the leader position no matter what), but it's still a great guide.



And this here, this is great work:

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FathomWheel wrote:

I don't have all of the data yet, but how hard you work to get someone into position depends how much they increase the safehouse's rewards. I've created a spreadsheet comparing how much each individual member adds vs an alternative starting at around row 24.

In my opinion, you can delay Research by about 20% to get ITF into the command position before you start running into lost expected value, but closer to about 40% if someone like Tora is in the hotseat. For Intervention, you have considerably less margin because so many of them are similar and no single member contributes as large amount to the total value (about 10% generally).

Thanks guys! When I finally take over the syndicate, I'll kill you last. Or first, if you prefer.

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johnce6 wrote:

I don't think 95% of the people playing have any idea how to play the syndicate league or wtf is going on at all when making choices or why you would even make them. I've chosen the same things hundreds of times and still have no idea what the ramifications were other than maybe some cards moved somewhere on the screen for some reason.

At least you know you can get double scarabs somehow.

While I agree that the Syndicate mechanics aren't as well explained as I would like, it's pretty straightforward through trial and error. I think an hour or so is a reasonable amount of time to tease out how it works during normal play (such as campaign).

Basically, you have these options:
Interrogate - Demote the person and get intelligence on the division they appeared at (there is a bug here where it says you get intelligence for the division they are from; this is not correct). You always get this option.

Trust - If 2 people have ranks and spawn, you have a chance to get a connection between them (green line)

Betray - If 2 people are Trusted and are the last 2 people remaining (either because only 2 spawned or you already dealt with the third), you get this option. It has several varieties such as rank/de-rank, intel gain, removal from sydnicate. This will turn the green line to red.

Execute - Levels this member up by 1 rank. You will only get this option if there are 2+ people present and the above options are not able to spawn. This is also how you get people to join a division (going from rank 0 to rank 1).

Bargain - This is the "other" category it seems like. You'll get this option most often when there is only 1 person left to deal with. Sometimes you get intel, some times they'll try to remove themselves, sometimes they'll want to move to a division or recruit a friend.

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wierdzodi wrote:

For intervention, Cameria is significantly more valuable
currently than the others, the cost of gilded sulphite scarab is close to 40c atm.

yes and no. Granted, my spreadsheet is already a little dated (I have him as 30c instead of roughly 35c that poe.ninja lists), the difference between him being the leader and not isn't terribly large. You can expect about 110c no matter who is leader. If Cameria is, it will go up to about 145c or so. If someone else is, it'll go up to about 130c or so. That's about a 10% gain of having Cameria as leader vs someone else.

You should be comparing the individual contribution to the entirety of the division; not to individual members' rewards.

EDIT:

"

Haha maybe this will help?

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/abdd26/the_defacto_syndicate_farming_guide/

That guide makes some good points, but I don't believe it is correct. Trust is useful in that it provides opportunity to spawn additional members, but it is not something you want to have too much of because it will overwrite the second option (which you want as Execute) to remove people roughly 4/5 times. You want a red line (Betrayal) connection people to increase odds of them spawning but also not interfering with how you level up. But some green is good as well.