Betrayal just isn't fun

I disagree some of the strongest builds in this game are melee. All the juggs MS builds for example. They can be fast mappers too with ancestral call and 12 IAS leap. You're just picking/building right melees. It's like saying self casters suck. Most but not all. BV rips though maps and boss for example.

"

robmafia wrote:

"

Deliverme wrote:

"

Asmodeia wrote:

I swear if Syndicates go core, I'm quitting this trash hahahahaha, you can build soo much defense to counter these Syndicates, but there's always 1 shots out of nowhere, at the most BS times. If anything the Syndicate members simply shouldn't gain all map mods, as they're already broken asf. On top of Gloomfang spawns and all the other adds that count toward the clusterf**k that's Betrayal encounters.

This is my fear, and I am right there with you. I wont have this nonsense in core. I have a RIDICULOUSLY over tuned defensive character (8600 life, 60%+ Phys dam mitigation, 50% block etc etc) and the encounters are still WAY TOO dangerous. If this goes core without a major nerf bat, unfortunately, I think I have to walk away from POE.

i guess it's just uncanny that i don't have this issue.

oh, right. you're the summoner that was shield charging into mobs. my god. you STILL didn't figure that out yet?

Lol here you go gaslighting... again...

I do not SHIELD CHARGE INTO MOBS. I have fortify on shield charge, because "why not?" It doesnt cost me anything and is up sometimes. Like, if I am shield charging out of danger. It has a positive benefit sometimes at zero investment, so why wouldnt I have it on shield charge? Give me a good reason.

Anyway... as always, ROBMAFIA AND MRSDEATH HERE TO TELL EVERYONE THAT THEY SUCK!!! RAHHHH!!!! GODS OF POE!!!!

"

Prizy wrote:

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

holy shit. are u kidding me ?
one of the tankiest builds i ve ever build is melee :D
they did not kill melee builds with 3.5 they just got rid of ridiculous dmg dealing shitlord weapons. and i am glad they did.

if u think melee builds are weak, im sorry to tell you this but you know nothing about this game ^^

I wouldn't say they are weak... but they require much more time and investment than most any caster build (especially now).

Any character can be good with enough gear/exalts put behind it. Melee is weaker that casters (overall) though that's for sure.

that is a way too big overgeneralization.

a weakness can be defined by different aspects. for example a weak spell caster could clear the maps faster but can be shot down by a rogue exile.
you can call a melee character weak because it lacks clear speed but that character might be tanky af. so would that make a melee character weak?
in the end its just your own take on the character you view.

if u ask me to define a character that is not weak, that character has to survive mapping any tier of maps. it doesnt have to do all the bosses but it should not have trouble dealing with syndicate,exiles or rares.

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

that is a way too big overgeneralization.

a weakness can be defined by different aspects. for example a weak spell caster could clear the maps faster but can be shot down by a rogue exile.
you can call a melee character weak because it lacks clear speed but that character might be tanky af. so would that make a melee character weak?
in the end its just your own take on the character you view.

if u ask me to define a character that is not weak, that character has to survive mapping any tier of maps. it doesnt have to do all the bosses but it should not have trouble dealing with syndicate,exiles or rares.

Casters are getting 7k life with MoM and ridiculous damage. With not as much investment.

Casters doesn't mean "glass cannon" anymore especially with ascendancies. To say that gearing melee is as easy as gearing casters would simply be false.

Most casters nowadays don't get "one shot by rogue exiles".

The catch is that casters clear fast AF AND do bosses well, whereas melee typically does bosses exceptionally well but map at average speeds. My assassin brand character has killed all but Uber elder in SSF this league (only because i can't get UE to spawn for some damn reason).

Maybe you don't have much experience with casters? Maybe you are taking the word "weak" in a different meaning?

Casters are superior in this game since it can do almost everything melee can do with 90% confidence AND map super fast on top of it.

"

Prizy wrote:

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

that is a way too big overgeneralization.

a weakness can be defined by different aspects. for example a weak spell caster could clear the maps faster but can be shot down by a rogue exile.
you can call a melee character weak because it lacks clear speed but that character might be tanky af. so would that make a melee character weak?
in the end its just your own take on the character you view.

if u ask me to define a character that is not weak, that character has to survive mapping any tier of maps. it doesnt have to do all the bosses but it should not have trouble dealing with syndicate,exiles or rares.

Casters are getting 7k life with MoM and ridiculous damage. With not as much investment.

Casters doesn't mean "glass cannon" anymore especially with ascendancies. To say that gearing melee is as easy as gearing casters would simply be false.

Most casters nowadays don't get "one shot by rogue exiles".

The catch is that casters clear fast AF AND do bosses well, whereas melee typically does bosses exceptionally well but map at average speeds. My assassin brand character has killed all but Uber elder in SSF this league (only because i can't get UE to spawn for some damn reason).

Maybe you don't have much experience with casters? Maybe you are taking the word "weak" in a different meaning?

Casters are superior in this game since it can do almost everything melee can do with 90% confidence AND map super fast on top of it.

the thing about defences is life and mom is not the only things you can get.

a lot of people miss the maximum res, reduced ele dmg taken, armour, chaos res, reduced dmg taken parts. you are missing these parts when you talk about being tanky. 7klife + mom is nothing compared to what you can face in deep delves.

sure casters are superrior BUT they are superrior in a dealing dmg + clear speed aspects.

i ll tell u how much experience i have with casters, in previous leagues i killed my first uber elder with a caster. i killed my ssf uber elder with a caster. i completed 2 of my leagues with the casters.
casters were the only thing i knew. i used my melee characters to clear lab. that was their only duty.
but when i discovered the defensive stats i mentioned before, i understood how weak casters were.

"

Prizy wrote:

"

andreicde wrote:

I love how all the white knightning focuses on attacking the people for any reason they could find. ''You have a bad ring/you are wearing tabula/you are not wearing the magic paper tower ''.

Sorry white knights, but the moment when you have to criticize every single piece and then reply with ''THAT'S WHY YOU ARE DYING!'' you already lost the argument. The fact it, the content is overtuned. Take a look at the fortification where the mobs are respawning constantly, drop nothing and prevent the doors from getting destroyed, the towers that cannot be targeted and still deal a lot of damage as well as the syndicate members + whoever gets summoned as well.

The moment when you need perfect gear to deal with Syndicate members just for the content to be bearable you know there is a big issue. What about lab that encourages suiciding (rushing through mobs to get to the boss or the syndicate evidence gets destroyed)? That was not well thought.

You don't need perfect gear to deal with syndicate ffs. There are some fights that require kiting. Some that require you to abandon the fight because map mods make the members too crazy. This is intended.

POE players have been spoiled with league mechanics since Perandus that are easily toppled by all characters... even bad ones.

I didn't lose any argument, because frankly there is no argument. If player A is dying to syndicate all of the time and player B rarely dies to syndicate, then player B is doing something correctly that Player A is not.

This is not up for some sort of weird interpretation of "good vs bad" players or gear. There is a person in this thread arguing about how difficult the league mechanic is with 2800 life and uncapped resistances in maps. Should this person's opinion be taken with the same weight as other people's?

Nobody is whiteknighting. POE players don't like hearing the fact that their character still needs to be min/maxed to work against this league mechanic.

There are certain builds that don't work well in this league. Totems for the most part are super safe against 95% of content.. however put those totems in front of a door of a fortification full of minions all over the place? Well good luck getting the totems to target anything. Why not get a 4 link trap setup for doors? Why not adjust the build and stop blaming the mechanics.

THe mechanics are SUPPOSED to be challenging and you have to... wait for it... adjust your character so that you can MEET the challenge.

IF the shit is too hard for you then play in standard... nothing is stopping you.

Sure, there is someone with 2800 life ranting, but the point is not those players, just some of the absurd mechanics. Try fortification as a summoner when the syndicate guys refuse to go outside and you will see what happens. Some doors are also stuck in 2x2 or take longer to destroy, guess what happens if you don't do it?

The rewards for Syndicate are also not good enough for all this hassle.

"

dragonkat42 wrote:

And I'll state it again because it clearly got missed the first time. I don't need capped resists or to "optimize" because my dps FROM TOTEMS ALONE before I even pile on raging spirit, skeletons, firestorm, and Armageddon brand is enough to burn map bosses to the ground and burned down every boss in the game, even act 10 kitava with a combined 2 deaths.

Hahaha this is golden.
Why don't you just run naked since you don't need defenses to begin with ?? /s
Is dying twice on Kitava your standard for a great build ??? really ???

*sigh*

Your build is not good, and you feeling that much entitled to beating the content before pulling your fingers out and making an actual effort to optimize your build is .... let's just go with "sad", that's the least obnoxious adjective that I can come up with right now.

"

Miathan51 wrote:

- I rush into a research lab and kill the mobs super fast and still somehow it ends, as if all research got destroyed
- caravans spawn in super incovenient places and start moving into uncleared map area full of mobs
- intervention happens at the very start of map so you cleared nothing and have like 10 square meters of safe space to maneuver

And even when none of the above happens and everything goes well, it just... isn't fun. Not a single time did I walk away from an encounter and thought "that was enjoyable". It's imbalanced trash content where you can't see what's happening 90% of the time and can only hope to get out alive.

Oh, and fortification is just the stupidest design ever with the endlessly respawning trash in front of the gates.

Seriously, I'd rather play launch week Bestiary again than this crap. The game is great and I'm really enjoying delve content (I didn't play delve league), but Betrayal sucks.

People like you don't get it. You expect it to all be easy and predictable. I love how transportation goes into areas I haven't explored. It adds to the challenge. Additionally intervention is meant to ambush you. That's the point.

I do wish there was more depth but it's a very positive addition to the game and adds some much needed challenge. And if you don't appreciate that challenge you can always prevent ranking up your syndicate members.

Some players get so used to the easy mode mentality and anything that puts a damper in that is somehow a not welcome feature. Sorry. But I am thankful that I can possibly die during the Syndicate considering how easy most of the game is.

"

IcyMistV wrote:

People like you don't get it. You expect it to all be easy and predictable.

Let me stop you right there. No, I do not. What I do expect is that syndicate encounters aren't significantly more dangerous than anything else that can spawn in a map. Which they are.

If I can full clear an incursion, kill an abyssal lich, a randomly spawned breachlord, any number of beyond bosses, etc, then I should also be able to succesfully do the syndicate encounter. I don't want it to be easy, other stuff isn't always easy either. But I want it to be doable, always. The risk and difficulty should be tuned in such a way that they are in line with the rest of the game's content, not far above it.

And like I said before, content that's far more risky and difficult is also welcome, but as endgame content, not as something that spawns in every zone and jumps people.

"

Miathan51 wrote:

"

IcyMistV wrote:

People like you don't get it. You expect it to all be easy and predictable.

Let me stop you right there. No, I do not. What I do expect is that syndicate encounters aren't significantly more dangerous than anything else that can spawn in a map. Which they are.

If I can full clear an incursion, kill an abyssal lich, a randomly spawned breachlord, any number of beyond bosses, etc, then I should also be able to succesfully do the syndicate encounter. I don't want it to be easy, other stuff isn't always easy either. But I want it to be doable, always. The risk and difficulty should be tuned in such a way that they are in line with the rest of the game's content, not far above it.

And like I said before, content that's far more risky and difficult is also welcome, but as endgame content, not as something that spawns in every zone and jumps people.

QFT!

Not that people like rob or Fruz or the rest of the syndicate are fine trolls will get it.

Oh but what do I know, me and my "lowly" 2800 life and all.

Honestly the elitist asshattery in this thread is a wonder to behold, and frankly proves my point about path of life node as you blather about "optimizing." And fling a few insults while ignoring the points being made.

Lets say it again. Do I consider dying twice across all of PoE to bosses a good build? Yes, yes I do. Give me a reason why it wouldn't be past git gud. Do I consider it "top notch" as our other resident troll watwat put it. No I don't. But my "halfassed" minion fire build rendered the games main story trivial to the point of boredom. Honestly it was too damn easy.

Now Fruz, Rob, and the rest I invite you to answer this question.

If a build renders the main game trivial, killed every boss from act 6 on in under 3 minutes, (tukohama being an exception due to force fields) can tear though main content without batting a sweat. Beats abyss crawlers in my sleep, But then encounters trash mobs with life totals and dps going past act bosses in endless spawns (a broken mechanic in and of itself in the time honored tradition of wearing down your enemy) And syndicate bosses dealing greater than kitava level damage in single all but unavoidable attacks. (google tora one shot, it's kinda entertaining)

Then is the problem the player, or the mechanic?

Now of course i know which one you think it is, "so "Sad" after all.

But again why would I try to "Optimize" when...

A: There is stories of 6K players getting one shot all over the forum anyway.
B: Louder for those in the back, the main content is already trivial outside syndicate.

So your answer is make the game 2X roughly easier when I'm already bored at how easy my build trashes anything outside one shot central?

Me think the trolls doth protest too much.

And I will say it again, this difference in scaling highlights PoE's biggest lie when it comes to build variety. There isn't any. Optimize isn't optimize when it's mandatory to have that level of life and defense to survive the blatantly OP stupid amounts of damage the syndicate puts out.

Even though I know you're going to now fall back on the tired refrain of everyone wants it easy. Any build should have a chance to work. subpar builds should have it harder, but subpar should not equal oneshot. More so when I find it dam hard again to consider a near zero death build subpar.

And in any other game I've ever played builds range from glass cannon to tanky. It's standard RPG fare. But good luck trying that in PoE right? Once again do you think it's a balanced game when only one viable option to survive league encounters exists?

Of course our elitist friends here also think non capped resists is also a death sentence, what was the word used you're expected to have it to take the hits.

Again, that's not optimized, that's mandatory, two very different things. And again harder to get when you are trying to keep your build going with uniques. I wonder, would you consider being able to put crafts on them making too easy for a dirty dirty casual like me? =p

Regardless...

Question #2 for you lot to answer. And again lets look at my build. I could easily get back about 10 points and work towards scion for life nodes if I dump the top left jewel and all those ES nodes I converted into armor (for all the good that armor is doing after all) if i dumped the top fire damage nodes that gives me enough points to cover 69% more max life across the trees. In fact I may go ahead and try it since path of life node is the way to go.

But I was given an option by that rare drop to try something that you would think would be a good plan. Get that much more mitigation through a unique source to offset non chaos hits that people like Leo and Hillock put out. But as it turns out against OP damage that is pretty much pointless and life probably is the better course of action.

Why give players choices like this when it's a false choice because that defense ends up not accomplishing what you would think it could by character sheet? Just to check I lose about 14% DR by that change. Down to 34%

But I guess when you're dealing with 1-2K hits that where the life comes into play? It's DR i could probably get by finding a place for arctic armor in the build too. Or a war cry, put those endless mobs to good use. Do you think that'd work better? But again is this optimize or this mandatory? and again when regular content is too easy what do I gain by trying to make it even easier just to take on what is truly not fun to slog through?

This is the thing I really find "sad" that people like you don't seem to get. At the end of the day it's not about big numbers it's about fun. So what if it's easier or more accessible?

Oh boo flipping hoo that your precious hardcore status and your git gud egos may be damaged by people being able to play a game how we wish, with *LE GASP!* Builds that don't have every node perfectly planned, or would like to try unique concepts! THE HORROR!

HOW DARE YOU NOT HAVE THE LIFE WE DEMAND!

Honestly I do think there's a problem with lack of life around here, but it's nothing to do with my build.

Peace out.