Help me with rain of arrows :) Plz

So I got my second character going, and everything is going pretty well. The problem I'm having is the inconsistent damage during boss fights. Guardians are just going down a bit too slow. I been playing around with links and I'm still paranoid that concentrated effect isn't as good as other supports. The links I been using---
Rain of arrows-Critical strikes-Critical Damage-Maim-Vicious Projectiles-Mirage Archer.

I been thinking of taking out Mirage archer and replacing it with concentrated effect. I would put Mirage on a separate 5 link and slap on a toxic rain to help slow down things because I noticed sometimes its a pain to get my shots off.

I need to change my tree a tiny bit but I think what I have going overall is great but I know my damage is not enough for uber elder. I feel like the issue I'm having is more of a rain of arrows problem than the build itself.

Thanks, I'm hoping someone can step in here.

"

ZACHWILDCAT wrote:

So I got my second character going, and everything is going pretty well. The problem I'm having is the inconsistent damage during boss fights. Guardians are just going down a bit too slow. I been playing around with links and I'm still paranoid that concentrated effect isn't as good as other supports. The links I been using---
Rain of arrows-Critical strikes-Critical Damage-Maim-Vicious Projectiles-Mirage Archer.

I been thinking of taking out Mirage archer and replacing it with concentrated effect. I would put Mirage on a separate 5 link and slap on a toxic rain to help slow down things because I noticed sometimes its a pain to get my shots off.

I need to change my tree a tiny bit but I think what I have going overall is great but I know my damage is not enough for uber elder. I feel like the issue I'm having is more of a rain of arrows problem than the build itself.

Thanks, I'm hoping someone can step in here.

Hi Zach. It's a bit tough without additional info (path of building, link to your character etc.) but I'll give it a shot!

Especially with the power of additional crafting capabilities, you should be able to get your crit chance covered by your tree complimented by additional global crit on gear. In doing so, we should be able to easily replace your "Critical Strikes" gem with something more potent, such as Conc Effect, as you mentioned.

RoA benefits greatly from attack speed if going crit: more attacks per second = more crits per second. Maim usage here can really impact the consistency of that critical delivery, especially since we can get this effect from the Vaal version of RoA. There are many viable options here depending on what are attempting to scale. From your description it looks like we are simply scaling physical damage yes? Let's throw in an Faster Attacks and I'm sure you'll see a large jump in consistent damage.

I'm going to throw in a related question that may or may not affect bosses.

I'm confused about the "half the arrows" part. Will conc effect increase the number of arrows that hit the target, or will it still be half, with the rest random?

I assume the arrows are concentrated in a smaller area, but it will not increase the damage of individual arrows. So the first half are not affected by conc effect at all. The other half only have an increased "chance" of hitting the target, rather than a guaranteed increase in damage like with other aoe skills.

Can I assume that if conc effect has a 50% increase in area damage, but it only affects half the arrows, the net increase is only 25%?

"

harddaysnight wrote:

I'm going to throw in a related question that may or may not affect bosses.

I'm confused about the "half the arrows" part. Will conc effect increase the number of arrows that hit the target, or will it still be half, with the rest random?

I assume the arrows are concentrated in a smaller area, but it will not increase the damage of individual arrows. So the first half are not affected by conc effect at all. The other half only have an increased "chance" of hitting the target, rather than a guaranteed increase in damage like with other aoe skills.

Can I assume that if conc effect has a 50% increase in area damage, but it only affects half the arrows, the net increase is only 25%?

Might have missed something here, but what are you referring to with "half the arrows"?

Conc effect will apply its damage and decreased AoE to both phases of RoA.

Sorry if I misunderstood your question here.

"

Shnoop wrote:

Might have missed something here, but what are you referring to with "half the arrows"?

Conc effect will apply its damage and decreased AoE to both phases of RoA.

Sorry if I misunderstood your question here.

In the description of ROA. It says "Half of the arrows will land directly on targets if there are targets in their range."

The wiki says "Half of the arrows will attempt to target a creature within their range, while the other half will land randomly."

I'm not sure how to express it. In a sense, the arrows are already "concentrated" on the target. By decreasing the spread, it will only affect the **other** half, causing more to randomly hit.

I checked again and individual arrows do seem to have the AOE tag, so individual arrows will be affected by conc. But when it comes to the spread, conc will have diminishing returns because it only affects half the arrows, not all of them.

If you compare it to a skill like Molten Strike for example, each ball will have an increased chance of hitting when you use conc. With rain of arrows, the increased chance only affects half of the arrows, not all of them. So you are only getting half the potential increase.

You are dividing the arrows in half. Group A which will hit the target. And Group B, which is random chance. Conc will only affect Group B.

Or at least that's how it seems to me.

"

Shnoop wrote:

"

ZACHWILDCAT wrote:

So I got my second character going, and everything is going pretty well. The problem I'm having is the inconsistent damage during boss fights. Guardians are just going down a bit too slow. I been playing around with links and I'm still paranoid that concentrated effect isn't as good as other supports. The links I been using---
Rain of arrows-Critical strikes-Critical Damage-Maim-Vicious Projectiles-Mirage Archer.

I been thinking of taking out Mirage archer and replacing it with concentrated effect. I would put Mirage on a separate 5 link and slap on a toxic rain to help slow down things because I noticed sometimes its a pain to get my shots off.

I need to change my tree a tiny bit but I think what I have going overall is great but I know my damage is not enough for uber elder. I feel like the issue I'm having is more of a rain of arrows problem than the build itself.

Thanks, I'm hoping someone can step in here.

Hi Zach. It's a bit tough without additional info (path of building, link to your character etc.) but I'll give it a shot!

Especially with the power of additional crafting capabilities, you should be able to get your crit chance covered by your tree complimented by additional global crit on gear. In doing so, we should be able to easily replace your "Critical Strikes" gem with something more potent, such as Conc Effect, as you mentioned.

RoA benefits greatly from attack speed if going crit: more attacks per second = more crits per second. Maim usage here can really impact the consistency of that critical delivery, especially since we can get this effect from the Vaal version of RoA. There are many viable options here depending on what are attempting to scale. From your description it looks like we are simply scaling physical damage yes? Let's throw in an Faster Attacks and I'm sure you'll see a large jump in consistent damage.

Sorry wasn't sure what I needed to post. So I was a deadeye and I have completed everything but havent had the maps to get my uber elder going yet. I have now changed into a raider because overall its better (i hate it because deadeye is supposed to be the Projectile King). The skill I feel like is lackluster, paste bin https://pastebin.com/kE1tivwe.

I figured stacking attack speed is the way to go, and thats what I was doing. I originally had the flow untethered on but when I did shaper I wasn't enjoying him getting the bonus speed lol. This speed also was stacking with the tailwind and also the slipstreams I place every few seconds. Now I have switched to only using the gloves for now but I might even get rid of those at this point. Guardians still feel a bit slow, and shaper was a bit slow too but I know it needs to be faster for uber elder. I need to obtain 1 more frenzy charge but thats about the only thing in the tree I need to change at this point.

"

harddaysnight wrote:

"

Shnoop wrote:

Might have missed something here, but what are you referring to with "half the arrows"?

Conc effect will apply its damage and decreased AoE to both phases of RoA.

Sorry if I misunderstood your question here.

In the description of ROA. It says "Half of the arrows will land directly on targets if there are targets in their range."

The wiki says "Half of the arrows will attempt to target a creature within their range, while the other half will land randomly."

I'm not sure how to express it. In a sense, the arrows are already "concentrated" on the target. By decreasing the spread, it will only affect the **other** half, causing more to randomly hit.

I checked again and individual arrows do seem to have the AOE tag, so individual arrows will be affected by conc. But when it comes to the spread, conc will have diminishing returns because it only affects half the arrows, not all of them.

If you compare it to a skill like Molten Strike for example, each ball will have an increased chance of hitting when you use conc. With rain of arrows, the increased chance only affects half of the arrows, not all of them. So you are only getting half the potential increase.

You are dividing the arrows in half. Group A which will hit the target. And Group B, which is random chance. Conc will only affect Group B.

Or at least that's how it seems to me.

Thank you for taking the time to run me through that! Sorry for my lack of understanding at the start. I'm slow on the uptake sometimes haha.

Your question is completely sound, however since the targeted area for BOTH volleys are more centralized, the "land randomly" half has a much smaller randomized zone to land in. Playing devil's advocate here, we are essentially cutting the randomness of the fall pattern down by half as well right? So in theory, with a well placed RoA (emphasis on "well placed" :P) our damage for both volleys should be increased by the same amount.

"

ZACHWILDCAT wrote:

Sorry wasn't sure what I needed to post. So I was a deadeye and I have completed everything but havent had the maps to get my uber elder going yet. I have now changed into a raider because overall its better (i hate it because deadeye is supposed to be the Projectile King). The skill I feel like is lackluster, paste bin https://pastebin.com/kE1tivwe.

I figured stacking attack speed is the way to go, and thats what I was doing. I originally had the flow untethered on but when I did shaper I wasn't enjoying him getting the bonus speed lol. This speed also was stacking with the tailwind and also the slipstreams I place every few seconds. Now I have switched to only using the gloves for now but I might even get rid of those at this point. Guardians still feel a bit slow, and shaper was a bit slow too but I know it needs to be faster for uber elder. I need to obtain 1 more frenzy charge but thats about the only thing in the tree I need to change at this point.

Thank you for the link! No worries on not knowing what to post, gotta start somewhere right? And you certainly came to the right place.

There's a few different things here. It looks like you are playing towards an attempt to scale some damage off the bleed, however no bleed nodes chosen. Totally viable path to go, but if you want to go that route I suggest picking up something like Bloodletting or Crimson Dance.

If bleed scaling isn't of interest and we simply want to keep this as supplementary damage, swap out that bow! Even a Lioneye's will net you a 2k+ DPS increase.

Also, your jewels are adding elemental damage but you're using brutality, aka your main skill is gaining ZERO benefit from your jewels as brutality removes all ele damage. Snag another jewel that buffs your attack damage, etc. or remove Brutality for another gem -- maybe Slow Projectiles?

"

Shnoop wrote:

Thank you for the link! No worries on not knowing what to post, gotta start somewhere right? And you certainly came to the right place.

There's a few different things here. It looks like you are playing towards an attempt to scale some damage off the bleed, however no bleed nodes chosen. Totally viable path to go, but if you want to go that route I suggest picking up something like Bloodletting or Crimson Dance.

If bleed scaling isn't of interest and we simply want to keep this as supplementary damage, swap out that bow! Even a Lioneye's will net you a 2k+ DPS increase.

Also, your jewels are adding elemental damage but you're using brutality, aka your main skill is gaining ZERO benefit from your jewels as brutality removes all ele damage. Snag another jewel that buffs your attack damage, etc. or remove Brutality for another gem -- maybe Slow Projectiles?

Thanks for taking the time to read and post. The only reason I'm having any type of bleed is simply because of the bow. I wanted to try and see if this bow could work because theoretically its around a 400pdps bow when a target is bleeding. The critical is great too, and the bow only cost 1 chaos so I started from there. Sadly for the jewel, it stinks it has cold damage on it but I needed to add the blind chance and this was the best bang for my buck at the moment.

I tried out your suggestion just in POB about the lioneyes and I lose alot of damage. This is considering a near perfect bow, I think you may have not of saw the added physical damage part on the bow im using when enemies are bleeding. It's just frustrating seeing how my idea isn't working out well and I don't feel like playing a different bow skill as I've tried almost all of them at this point.

Btw, to get a more accurate reading on the damage too, make sure you tick off the tailwind because I'm usually on an arcane wake and at times 2-3 sometimes and it does stack. This also isn't factoring in the 20% more action speed I get from the belt from time to time too. Even with all of this, the damage and use of rain of arrows is lackluster.

After thinking more too, I came to the realization that Im doing a pure physical build. Im betting if i did some conversion and added as extra i would probably be alot better off. I guess this shows the problem with physical scaling builds, they're just too weak in the end game.