Zana should sell ALL the regular maps

I feel all your pain. Filling out your Atlas can be frustrating, as you get droughts of advancement and then a couple of days of huge successes. I play perpetual SSF so trust me, I get it.

But you guys need to take into account the bigger picture - this is a FTP game - carrots on sticks, paucity of all items, slow but (hopefully) steady advancement, are all requirements in player retention. And retained players have more of a chance to spend money.

With the current Atlas system there will NEVER (I repeat, NEVER) be a map vendor. If you had not noticed, they made Zana inventory reset more difficult (or tedious) with the new league.

In my experience there are times of incredible frustration (I actually quit 2 leagues early because of a stagnant Atlas progression) but persistence generally sees you through to a point where you are map sustaining and your Atlas is all (or mostly) filled out.

Orbs from the Harbinger league sure make things a ton easier than they used to be too.

The carrot on stick now are the chase uniques and rare crafting i think. Maps are just a tool to gather resources.

Filling in Atlas on trade league was extremely simple. 150 atlas completion was done within a week or so, can sustain red maps thx to Alva and slowly moving towards Delve depth appropriate level.
So in terms of general map sustain, i don't think there was ever as easy league as it is now.
Even Garbingers are quite common now through scarabs and zana missions to have Breachheads rotas all day long for extremely easy leveling process.

So, Betrayal basically removed the carrot maps from the end of the stick and put a cupcake with Shaper and Elder ivl 86 items on it. And couple chase uniques like Headhunter or Watchers Eye.

There will have to come decision from GGG if they want to have maps as trade subjects -> if so, they will have to likely make the rolls on map matter more - well rolled maps should be the stuff to sell, not the maps as they are.
Otherwise, they will add map vendor eventually, as map management might become obsolete and unnecessary evil.

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Slaanesh69 wrote:

I feel all your pain. Filling out your Atlas can be frustrating, as you get droughts of advancement and then a couple of days of huge successes. I play perpetual SSF so trust me, I get it.

But you guys need to take into account the bigger picture - this is a FTP game - carrots on sticks, paucity of all items, slow but (hopefully) steady advancement, are all requirements in player retention. And retained players have more of a chance to spend money.

With the current Atlas system there will NEVER (I repeat, NEVER) be a map vendor. If you had not noticed, they made Zana inventory reset more difficult (or tedious) with the new league.

In my experience there are times of incredible frustration (I actually quit 2 leagues early because of a stagnant Atlas progression) but persistence generally sees you through to a point where you are map sustaining and your Atlas is all (or mostly) filled out.

Orbs from the Harbinger league sure make things a ton easier than they used to be too.

what does this all have to do with f2p when the maps are not even bought with real money?

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Feredhel wrote:

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Slaanesh69 wrote:

I feel all your pain. Filling out your Atlas can be frustrating, as you get droughts of advancement and then a couple of days of huge successes. I play perpetual SSF so trust me, I get it.

But you guys need to take into account the bigger picture - this is a FTP game - carrots on sticks, paucity of all items, slow but (hopefully) steady advancement, are all requirements in player retention. And retained players have more of a chance to spend money.

With the current Atlas system there will NEVER (I repeat, NEVER) be a map vendor. If you had not noticed, they made Zana inventory reset more difficult (or tedious) with the new league.

In my experience there are times of incredible frustration (I actually quit 2 leagues early because of a stagnant Atlas progression) but persistence generally sees you through to a point where you are map sustaining and your Atlas is all (or mostly) filled out.

Orbs from the Harbinger league sure make things a ton easier than they used to be too.

what does this all have to do with f2p when the maps are not even bought with real money?

Do you not understand retention techniques?

"

Slaanesh69 wrote:

Do you not understand retention techniques?

yes i understand that but how much retention should there be in a game?
you want this to become the new trove or what? dropping like 1 map each instace?
ive seen that game go to shit dont expect this one to go better if this is your defense for them. f2p does NOT mean the devs should design it poorly and hope for the most dedicated of their player to pay their poor work like trion is doing for...i dont know when. stopped paying attention.

is this REALLY what you think f2p means? no good drops, holding your progression back and youre supposed to pay for that? WTF are you smoking? and can i have it?

"

Slaanesh69 wrote:

But you guys need to take into account the bigger picture - this is a FTP game - carrots on sticks, paucity of all items, slow but (hopefully) steady advancement, are all requirements in player retention. And retained players have more of a chance to spend money.

With the current Atlas system there will NEVER (I repeat, NEVER) be a map vendor. If you had not noticed, they made Zana inventory reset more difficult (or tedious) with the new league.

.

maybe, maybe not.

i quit every league early because i get sick of trading for maps and I won't be spending any more money on it while this crappy trading to access content dynamic is kept in place.

and yes, you can bet that everyone who hates trading for maps has noticed GGG are gating more content behind the need to trade using their awful trading system

They just need to reset Zana's inventory every day like before. Having her daily stuck behind a map you cant do is really annoying. At least before you could get a bunch of maps every day, now sometimes I go a couple days with out being able to get any maps from her.

Map sustain is even easier this league then in previous ones actually.

Incursion temple: The map room there is insanely ludicrous. Easily gives you at least 5 maps of the same tier you have been running. Probably a few others.

Lab Farming: The map chest in Lab, while less insane then the Incursion map room, is still ridiculously profitable for filling out your early Atlas.

Delve: The real meat of map-sustain. Due to the DRASTICALLY higher spawn rate of Delve cities you can just Delve deep into the mines and get tons of red-tier maps. You can also easily get Sulphite by just using Sulphite Scarabs, which are fairly easy to get if you understand the Syndicate mechanic.

Pure Breachstones: A really difficult, but REALLY powerful option. These can easily award several high-tier maps per run. Or you can sell them for a large amount of currency (Last I checked they sell for an Exalt each).

Zana's mods: Self explanatory. Harbinger's being 4 chaos is insane.

3-1 Recipe: The changes made to the 3-1 Vendor Recipe make it so you can get ANY map from that recipe, making it MUCH easier to get Hard-To-Obtain maps.

I'm a fairly new player (And by that I mean I have only reached mapping with 5 characters, 2 this league, 2 last league, 1 during Incursion league), and yet I am easily sustaining at minimum Tier 8 maps. Typically I'm running Tier 9/10 maps. I also haven't even gotten to 100% completion bonus, and I also haven't gotten to the Delve depth where I can get Red-Tier maps.

"

Artophwar wrote:

They just need to reset Zana's inventory every day like before. Having her daily stuck behind a map you cant do is really annoying. At least before you could get a bunch of maps every day, now sometimes I go a couple days with out being able to get any maps from her.

You can actually reset Zana's inventory MULTIPLE times a day now.

Just spam low-tier maps till a Zana mission shows up there. Run it. Boom, her inventory is reset. She still carries the same tier of maps you have unlocked (Based on how far you have made it in Zana's quest).

It doesn't even take that long.

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KnightAgenta wrote:

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Artophwar wrote:

They just need to reset Zana's inventory every day like before. Having her daily stuck behind a map you cant do is really annoying. At least before you could get a bunch of maps every day, now sometimes I go a couple days with out being able to get any maps from her.

You can actually reset Zana's inventory MULTIPLE times a day now.

Just spam low-tier maps till a Zana mission shows up there. Run it. Boom, her inventory is reset. She still carries the same tier of maps you have unlocked (Based on how far you have made it in Zana's quest).

It doesn't even take that long.

Well that's fucking annoying, but at least it's a work-around to this horrible system.

At the very least, she should be guaranteed to sell the map she is currently sitting in. If the stupid ginger wants me to help her work out her daddy issues, she needs to stop hiding from me.