optimal 5th gem in a 5l for arc???

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magicrectangle wrote:

I wouldn't use it even if it had no mana multiplier. Like I said, I tested it quite a bit, and killed noticeably slower with chain than without - that's chain casting, I can actually afford to chain cast with chain (heh), but it doesn't matter, damage is still worse.

Arc without chain: 3*100%=300% damage
Arc with chain: 5*50%=250% damage

Dis is why.

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Keyen wrote:

Arc without chain: 3*100%=300% damage
Arc with chain: 5*50%=250% damage

Dis is why.

That's true for Chain lvl 1. How about a more realistic environment?


edit:

This was answered earlier already. My bad.

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magicrectangle wrote:

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FAMO wrote:

Are you certain that the bonus damage from chain applies to arc? Cause it says "+% to projectile damage", and chain is NOT a projectile.

I don't have a leveled chain to check with at the moment, but according to the wiki it is just damage, not projectile damage.

This is correct.

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Unimatrix wrote:

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Keyen wrote:

Arc without chain: 3*100%=300% damage
Arc with chain: 5*50%=250% damage

Dis is why.

That's true for Chain lvl 1. How about a more realistic environment?

Chains lvl are increased damage.

If you have, let's say, 100% increased damage from gears, nodes, or stuff, you are doing:
300%* 2= 600% without chain
250%* 2,38= 595% with chain lvl 20

So, where is the probleme with the "realistic environment" since 100% increased damage is incredibly low and you have always way more?

FACTS are "You are doing always more damage with arc and without chain than with arc + chain".

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magicrectangle wrote:

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FAMO wrote:

Are you certain that the bonus damage from chain applies to arc? Cause it says "+% to projectile damage", and chain is NOT a projectile.

I don't have a leveled chain to check with at the moment, but according to the wiki it is just damage, not projectile damage.

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I've thought about using chain on my arc as well, but 200% mana multiplier is way too much for my mana pool to handle.

I wouldn't use it even if it had no mana multiplier. Like I said, I tested it quite a bit, and killed noticeably slower with chain than without - that's chain casting, I can actually afford to chain cast with chain (heh), but it doesn't matter, damage is still worse.

All depends on what you are using Arc for. If it was my main nuke, there to do damage, then I agree with the above....I would not use Chain, even if it was free. It slows you down no end; it really gimps Arc. I reckon Faster Casting (and just spam it more) without Chain is a much better approach. The issue is that with Arc + Chain, you get robbed. Think about Chain with Fireball. When your Fireball hits, another is cast, then another. You get TREBLE the bang for your buck as it adds a complete new Fireball twice. With Arc you do not get treble, you hit 5 targets instead of 3. You get robbed. To get the same effect as other chained spells, a Chained Arc should hit 9 targets.

However if you are instead using Arc to support minions and thus just to spread Shock about, Chain is a good choice. In this case I run Penetration and Proliferation on it and it works really well.

For pure survivability and possibly in a minion build, Arc + Blind works quite well also.

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GhostlightX wrote:

However if you are instead using Arc to support minions and thus just to spread Shock about, Chain is a good choice.

Nop sir, even just for spread shock, chain is awful since the shock duration is halved. Elemental proliferation + arc >>> Elemental proliferation + arc + chain.

Well I disagree. Shock duration being halved doesn't matter if you are re-applying it before it wears off anyway. (This is why Static Blows builds never take the increased Shock duration node right beside SB and why Ice Witches never take increased Freeze duration nodes either).

What matters is getting it to proc, so it will proliferate. The more targets you hit with one cast, the higher chance Shock is applied to one of them and proliferates.

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GhostlightX wrote:

Well I disagree. Shock duration being halved doesn't matter if you are re-applying it before it wears off anyway. (This is why Static Blows builds never take the increased Shock duration node right beside SB and why Ice Witches never take increased Freeze duration nodes either).

What matters is getting it to proc, so it will proliferate. The more targets you hit with one cast, the higher chance Shock is applied to one of them and proliferates.

Against a bunch of weak enemies, chain has the arguable benefit that you get more chances to shock (and then have that proliferate).

However, in practice, both with and without chain (but always with proliferation), big groups of weak enemies all end up shocked very quickly. I can't tell the difference in the speed at which I get things shocked, and both will keep them shocked if you keep spamming.

So how about considering something other than big groups? Pretty obviously chain is the opposite of good against bosses. It is also a pretty big detriment against rare and magic monsters. Chain can drop your arc damage low enough that you simply do not shock rare monsters and bosses at all, or if you do, the duration is too short to be able to re-apply (and thus stack) it.

So chain is basically no better against groups, and worse against elites and bosses. Socket increased critical strikes instead, you'll get extra shocks from that too, without nerfing damage, and thus shock duration, which does matter for higher health monsters.

Assuming minions are your primary damage, and arc is for shocking, arc is going to be in a 4 link, not a 5 or 6 link. Spectres will probably be in the 5 or 6 link. So, your 4 links, for the purpose of spreading shock, will be arc + faster cast + ele prolif + crit chance.

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magicrectangle wrote:

Assuming minions are your primary damage, and arc is for shocking, arc is going to be in a 4 link, not a 5 or 6 link. Spectres will probably be in the 5 or 6 link. So, your 4 links, for the purpose of spreading shock, will be arc + faster cast + ele prolif + crit chance.

Crit chance is not a good pick for arc (4% base crit chance). And imo, crit chance suxx on everything, because it's way too low.
I think lightning pen will be way better at spreading shock (since it's a +35% shock duration on 0 lightning res monster and a + 140% shock duration on 75% lighting res monster) than critical chance.

Yeah lightning pen is a pretty good choice. It sort of slipped my mind because I stopped running it when I went double curse (conductivity + ele weakness).

All of this is beside the point though, since the OP is asking about a 5th gem, he's obviously using arc for more than just spreading shock.

why not LMP, small bonus dmg to the projectiles level'd up and you get 3x the arcs (unlike chain).

so arc + ele prof + faster cast + lightning pen + lmp is what i'd do for a 5link

but i always play with fire so dont mind me, with fire i get to add ignite which you can't, i dont have room for lmp for single target dmg, and firestorm is simply better for aoe.