SSF Uber Lab Trials - Pointless RNG?

Another 'I play SSF, so re-make the entire game to suit my special snowflake needs' post.

Nothing to see here.

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I've always found all of the trials in the first 1/2 days, seems easy enough to me. Failing that there is a prophecy to help you too, that's common enough.

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Chalace2 wrote:

Another 'I play SSF, so re-make the entire game to suit my special snowflake needs' post.

Nothing to see here.

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I've always found all of the trials in the first 1/2 days, seems easy enough to me. Failing that there is a prophecy to help you too, that's common enough.

Another 'I don't have you problem, so must be doing it wrong reply.'

Nothing to see here.

This post may contain sarcasm.

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Synopse wrote:

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Chalace2 wrote:

Another 'I play SSF, so re-make the entire game to suit my special snowflake needs' post.

Nothing to see here.

--

I've always found all of the trials in the first 1/2 days, seems easy enough to me. Failing that there is a prophecy to help you too, that's common enough.

Another 'I don't have you problem, so must be doing it wrong reply.'

Nothing to see here.

This post may contain sarcasm.

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Failing that there is a prophecy to help you too, that's common enough.

Reading is hard. But I guess, you're not interested in logical responses.
Let's ignore the guaranteed spawn mechanic because it doesn't help the OP's cause.

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Synopse wrote:

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Chalace2 wrote:

Another 'I play SSF, so re-make the entire game to suit my special snowflake needs' post.

Nothing to see here.

--

I've always found all of the trials in the first 1/2 days, seems easy enough to me. Failing that there is a prophecy to help you too, that's common enough.

Another 'I don't have you problem, so must be doing it wrong reply.'

Nothing to see here.

This post may contain sarcasm.

Along the same lines,

Another person giving feedback and suggestions in the Feedback and Suggestions forum because they want the entire game re-make into suiting their special snowflake needs post. How dare they abuse the Feedback and Suggestions forum by giving feedback and suggestions. Everyone should know that it is not allowed to give feedback and suggestions, especially not in the Feedback and Suggestions forum. How can they be so ridiculous?

Nothing to see here.

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Tmpp wrote:

Is there any point in having the Uber lab trials be so difficult and RNG-based to find? All of the non-SSF players are using global 820 to find the trials they need, and most of us SSF players will never find all 6. Two extremes around pointless RNG.

How about making each trial more likely to spawn in a specific set of maps or something? There's pretty much zero reason for it to be fully random. If the problem is limiting the amount of Offerings one can find, at least make it so that the first 6 trials are easier to find, and the latter ones after that drop in encounter frequency.

This is the second league in a row where I'm stuck with 5/6 trials and have several dozen offerings from repeat trials that I've found.

It's one of the min reasons why i dont play SSF. I know that i wont have anough time and patience to find all 6 trials for Uber Lab...
It's really a bullshit design. Hiding an important part of character class progression behind stupid RNG. Yes, players managed to overcome it with sharing their trials in 820 channel, but they're in fact just band-aiding cancerous design.

When it comes to uber trials, I play SSF as well (I don't use 820 ever).

It usually takes ~20 trials to get all 6.
With trials showing up every ~5th map, I need to put ~100 maps in the device, and I'm usually ~85 before I get my uber lab done.

I think this is somewhat ok. Not great, but okay.

And of course it is annoying when bad RNG makes this journey longer than that.

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Peterlerock wrote:

And of course it is annoying when bad RNG makes this journey longer than that.

Yes, that's it. It's like 6-linking an item without Vorici. You know, that in average you should spend ~1000 fusings to 6-link an item, but due to highly deviating RNG, sometimes you cant get it 6-linked even with 5k+ fusings. Same wih finding all 6 Uber Trials... Sometimes, you cant find the last 6th trial even after ~400 maps.

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Synopse wrote:

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grepman wrote:

the issue with even complex puzzles, is that once you find a solution (remember, NP-hard problems cannot be solved to find ALL solutions in polynomial time, but its not hard to construct an algorithm to find at least one solution), then you've solved the puzzle and can use the same solution all the time. this becomes detrimental and uninteresting because in any situation you could throw the solution and 'win'.

You assume that there always is a wining-strategie, which is not necessarily the case.

I didn't assume it, but most people wouldn't like it if there wasnt a single winning strategy, ie they would always lose . Me, I'd embrace it. I love dwarf fortress

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But there are games that don't need randomness and yet have no winning strategie. Chess is a very prominent example, but of course, not necessariliy everyones cup of tea.

This makes no sense, chess is solvable by computers and thus has winning strategy. Even poker, which has rng due to cards, has theoretical game optimal strategy

You are now venturing into territory when you are plain stating wrong things

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Do you know the rubix cube?

you're asking a programmer whether I know rubic's cube or not. Do I?

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It has been very popular for a long time, yet it has an easy to learn winning strategy.

and what's your point? If I can solve a rubic's cube in 20 seconds and I know the algorithm, would I play it for 1k hours?

what do you think?

I never said games without rng can't be popular. I said once you find a solution, a puzzle becomes far less interesting. And eventually it becomes routine.

Once you know the algorithm,the only thing you can do to keep yourself engaged with rubic's cube is to try to train your fingers/hand to do it faster.

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The core feature of RNG is create an excitement from unexpected results. It is the same effect that keeps people playing slot machines.

Not unexpected. You know you results and can expect certain results over a long run if you know the odds. Unpredictable in the short run is a more correct term.

And you're saying slots like it's a bad connotation

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grepman wrote:

RNG can only stratch content, it will never create content. Content is created by an act of creatity, not by flipping a coin.

No it can create content too, go back to my darkest dungeon example
By presenting unpredictable situations which you couldn't have accounted for, you are presented with tree paths that you would've never hit when traversing all possible combinations if you chose a winning strategy. As such, you have created a problem which resulted from rng

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Did you know that failure creates a much stronger emotion than success? People claim that it is fun to overcome the frustation in failure, but it is the frustation that keep them buzzy first and success is just a short releave, after which the frustating part is continued.

Sure, for me it's like that.i don't mind failing rng rolls, but many people playing poe certainly do. Rng is fair, and they want pity timers and other bullshit like that.

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Yet, I think that too much RNG is not a good game design. RNG must be in ballance with substancial content.
The basic idea is to provide enough content to justify the existing amount of RNG-based grinding.

My impression is that GGG has at least a rough understanding on how this ballance have to look like. Yet, there is a tendency to add much more RNG than new content. This is probably the case, because new content requires much more effort than a new RNG gate. This is why I think that RNG is the cheep and easy way, because content is the more expensive and complex one. For me, a good ARPG needs both of it. Otherwise we just can go and play a slot machine.
This is of course only my opioning.

ggg is the only company to keep making new content for an arpg game that is 5 years old. Content isn't made out of rubber. There is only so much content they can do in 3 months period. They want to retain nolifers because they keep the game relevant on streams. Not sure what you want them to do.

It's like, did you have fun with tic tac toe when you were little? Likely

What happened when you learned you can always tie? Is it exciting to play?


Whta if I tell you every time you place an X or O you have a 50% chance to displace randomly by 1 square and 10% chance to displace by 2 squares?

You still can easily derive correct strategy but the game will be more interesting to play, and there will be tons of instances just like in poker where you play absolutely correctly and still lose.

And please spare talk about gambling and addiction and all that - I'm not interested in those, I have no sympathy there.

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Chalace2 wrote:

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Synopse wrote:

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Chalace2 wrote:

Another 'I play SSF, so re-make the entire game to suit my special snowflake needs' post.

Nothing to see here.

--

I've always found all of the trials in the first 1/2 days, seems easy enough to me. Failing that there is a prophecy to help you too, that's common enough.

Another 'I don't have you problem, so must be doing it wrong reply.'

Nothing to see here.

This post may contain sarcasm.

"

Failing that there is a prophecy to help you too, that's common enough.

Reading is hard. But I guess, you're not interested in logical responses.
Let's ignore the guaranteed spawn mechanic because it doesn't help the OP's cause.

Thank you for your reply and my apologies for saying it with your own harsh words.
If you intend to contribute something, please skip the harsh part and jsut put the contribution. Nobody likes to listen to a smart ass.

Btw. next to prophecy there are the new Zana quests. But are already mentioned in this thread if you would have cared to read the who thread. So yes, reading is hard.