{3.10} Speaker for the Dead | The Mass Minion Summoner | League Starter, Leveling Guide 💀

"

Hercanic wrote:

@ AmonRai:

"

AmonRai wrote:

I would love to work in a hungry loop somehow in this build. Any suggestions? Not sure if a 5l animated guardian is superior to a shaper unset ring with holy relic. Though I guess you could 5l projectile weakness too, im just not sure what all of the options are.

You'd have to manually cast that 5L Projectile Weakness, and there really aren't any good supports for it that would outweigh the convenience of Mark of Submission.

Similarly, there's not much you can link to an Animated Guardian. Anything that boosts survival: Minion Life, Fortify, Empower, and that's pretty much it. Culling Strike, Blind, Combustion, Melee Splash (if his gloves curse on hit), Withering Touch + Multistrike, Maim (if your Zombies/Crawler don't have it), Endurance Charge on Melee Stun + Ruthless + Stun, Bonechill, Decay, these offer some utility but aren't especially compelling or reliable to sacrifice a ring slot for.

As for other minions, you could deck out the Holy Relic or a Golem. Or go Spell Totem with Raging Spirits or Animated Weapon, heh. Whether any of these are worth losing the life, resists, and Life Gain on Hit from Spells from an Unset Shaper Ring, that remains to be seen.

Yeah I'll throw a golem in there and see if its any good. Just not sure whether I want a Chaos or Flame golem, typically I would think flame all the way, but I just don't have the survivability for shaper's guardians +shaper. Granted I also haven't 6 linked my belly so that will go a long way i think when I replace my chest.

Hey there, I'm a fairly novice player and this will be my second build to try out for the next league. It sounds really fun. I just need to know - is the play style and skills used controller-friendly? Like will there be any need for precise targeting? I play on Xbox. :P

"

Theron_R wrote:

Hey there, I'm a fairly novice player and this will be my second build to try out for the next league. It sounds really fun. I just need to know - is the play style and skills used controller-friendly? Like will there be any need for precise targeting? I play on Xbox. :P

I haven't played on console, so idk how exactly the controls work. But I would think the only thing that might be tricky is choosing the right corpse to raise as a spectre. On PC, we can hold a button to allow the targeting of corpses, hover over them to see their names, and make sure we're on the right one before we press the raise spectre button.

If that's workable - and mind that you'll never be doing that under time pressure, so it doesn't really need to be easy, just doable - then I'd think this would be fine. Minions do most of the work, so you don't have much targeting to begin with, and what you do have isn't that sensitive.

Edit: You will have some skills to juggle, like summoning Holy Relic, activating your auras, summoning a Golem if you're using one, activating Animated Guardian if you're using one. Stuff that you won't use in combat (have to turn on auras after rezzing if you die, have to summon Relic/golem/maybe guardian when you log in, may have to do them when you switch weapon sets for Desecrate to raise spectres depending where you put the skill gems), but will need to do out of combat, and it probably will require reassigning skills to activate/summon stuff and then switching back before you get going. But I'm assuming console can do that about as easily as PC.

@Hercanic - thank you for your answers.

I have one additional question about the gloves and the bleed mechanic.
Since the bleed is triggered by the charged dash attack - don't you think that in a real dangerous fight situation, where you need to move and dodge a lot (or spit lighting balls offscreen sometimes) we won't apply the bleed all the time and we'll be losing significant amount of dps (because of the inactive Bloodlust support).

Considering that, would you say that the other suggested supports for the skeletons (Empower, Multistrike etc.) can be in fact more consistent dps (with dropping off the bleed from the gloves)?

Thanks.

"

YYakovliev wrote:

@Hercanic - thank you for your answers.

I have one additional question about the gloves and the bleed mechanic.
Since the bleed is triggered by the charged dash attack - don't you think that in a real dangerous fight situation, where you need to move and dodge a lot (or spit lighting balls offscreen sometimes) we won't apply the bleed all the time and we'll be losing significant amount of dps (because of the inactive Bloodlust support).

Considering that, would you say that the other suggested supports for the skeletons (Empower, Multistrike etc.) can be in fact more consistent dps (with dropping off the bleed from the gloves)?

Thanks.

Bleed mechanic is supported by "all" gems attached

Ball of Lightning is your source of bleed realistically

"

aswedishtiger wrote:

"

YYakovliev wrote:

@Hercanic - thank you for your answers.

I have one additional question about the gloves and the bleed mechanic.
Since the bleed is triggered by the charged dash attack - don't you think that in a real dangerous fight situation, where you need to move and dodge a lot (or spit lighting balls offscreen sometimes) we won't apply the bleed all the time and we'll be losing significant amount of dps (because of the inactive Bloodlust support).

Considering that, would you say that the other suggested supports for the skeletons (Empower, Multistrike etc.) can be in fact more consistent dps (with dropping off the bleed from the gloves)?

Thanks.

Bleed mechanic is supported by "all" gems attached

Ball of Lightning is your source of bleed realistically

@ aswedishtiger: Chance to Bleed Support only affects Attacks, not Spells. Ball Lightning cannot apply Bleed.

@ YYakovliev: In that situation, yes, though it should be exceedingly rare and you have more than enough DPS to clear those surprises without Bloodlust (it might just take a few seconds longer). I wouldn't use Multistrike with Projectile Weakness, though, due to the knockback and Skeletons being locked in place for three strikes. With the new changes to curse effect on bosses, Vulnerability could be used to give Zombies and the Agony Crawler a 10.2% chance to inflict Bleed for Skeletons. Replacing the Solar Guard Spectre with a Knitted Horror or Kitava's Herald is also a possibility.

Yesterday i tried this new synthesis boss a big golem had 0 chance >.<
even my zombies melted so fast even with 28k HP <.<

@ everyone:
I finally found it! Let me tell ya, navigating PoeDB is a proper pain in the rear. But I found the page with Synthesis monster info:

http://poedb.tw/us/area.php?n=Distant+Memory

---

@ ogogo:

"

ogogo wrote:

Yesterday i tried this new synthesis boss a big golem had 0 chance >.<
even my zombies melted so fast even with 28k HP <.<

With the above, we can now see what each boss does, their damage and damage types, AI script, etc. The first thing I note is there is no reduced damage to minions. This is often added to bosses, because minions cannot dodge overpowered telegraphed effects like players.

"

ShaperBulletHell:
monster_penalty_against_minions_damage_+%_final_vs_player_minions [-70]

GGG should really just add it to the minions themselves, instead of this piecemeal approach that leaves summoners out cold whenever they forget summoner balance against bosses.

Can you tell us more about what happened? Boss name, area level, which effects or stages wiped your minions, what killed you, stuff like that.

im no more sure exactly all i can remember he casted some kind of aoe wich deals dmg with each stack and my minions melted in like 5 seconds ^^

@ aswedishtiger:

"

aswedishtiger wrote:

"

Hercanic wrote:

@ aswedishtiger:

"

aswedishtiger wrote:

@Hercanic wow what a guide! Haven't been this addicted to this game since I played Diablo 2!

Just 1 quick question

Could you glance over my gear and make just 1 suggestion on what I should be grinding for next to optimize?

Another thing necklace. The life one seems so nice and I feel like it's spoiled me but I want to try the minion damage one is it worth the tradeoff?

Your characters are set to Private, so there's no way for anyone but you to see them. Have you read both the Gear section in Epilogue of the Leveling Guide and the "Can you look over my gear?" section in the FAQ?

Which DPS amulet? +1 Skeletons or the Toe? A Skeleton contributes 200-300k DPS, while Lucky Damage is ~20% more damage (depends on damage range, with a wider range benefiting even more) but you'll take more lightning damage in turn. I would only use the Toe when paired with Infused Channelling on Charged Dash (replacing GMP), since it'll lessen lightning damage taken.

Personally, I don't feel the build lacks damage, but it does need all the defense it can get. That's why I opted for Bloodgrip.

Understood, I unhid it I think (not even sure how that box got checked)

If you're too busy completely understand, huge writeup and I totally missed that part sorry mate D:

1. Since your gloves don't have the Poison affix, you only have 20% chance to poison from Herald of Agony.

2. Blind, Taunt, and Hinder on jewels are mainly for bosses, so more than one instance of each isn't necessary. The most dangerous thing about mapping is the instant of first encounter. Mobs generally don't last long enough for the jewels to matter. As such, your Ancient Sight jewel is plenty. You can drop Morbid Prism, Grim Stare, and Whispering Sphere.

3. You can take back the six passive points used for the two jewel sockets in the Scion area and invest them into life nodes. Just four 5% nodes, or "Herbalism", will push you up to 6k life. Also, don't forget the 6% node after "Blood Drinker" or the 5%/8% life/mana node after "Heart and Soul". Those have good value.

4. Curse Warding on a utility flask will be especially helpful on Temp Chains maps.

5. A Stygian Vise belt will give you much better value on resistances than a Darkness Enthroned.

6. Your helm doesn't have Minion Damage, so you can replace Vile Toxins with the actual support gem for a more reliable damage source until you upgrade your helm.

---

@ AmonRai:

"

AmonRai wrote:

"

Hercanic wrote:

@ AmonRai:

"

AmonRai wrote:

I would love to work in a hungry loop somehow in this build. Any suggestions? Not sure if a 5l animated guardian is superior to a shaper unset ring with holy relic. Though I guess you could 5l projectile weakness too, im just not sure what all of the options are.

You'd have to manually cast that 5L Projectile Weakness, and there really aren't any good supports for it that would outweigh the convenience of Mark of Submission.

Similarly, there's not much you can link to an Animated Guardian. Anything that boosts survival: Minion Life, Fortify, Empower, and that's pretty much it. Culling Strike, Blind, Combustion, Melee Splash (if his gloves curse on hit), Withering Touch + Multistrike, Maim (if your Zombies/Crawler don't have it), Endurance Charge on Melee Stun + Ruthless + Stun, Bonechill, Decay, these offer some utility but aren't especially compelling or reliable to sacrifice a ring slot for.

As for other minions, you could deck out the Holy Relic or a Golem. Or go Spell Totem with Raging Spirits or Animated Weapon, heh. Whether any of these are worth losing the life, resists, and Life Gain on Hit from Spells from an Unset Shaper Ring, that remains to be seen.

Yeah I'll throw a golem in there and see if its any good. Just not sure whether I want a Chaos or Flame golem, typically I would think flame all the way, but I just don't have the survivability for shaper's guardians +shaper. Granted I also haven't 6 linked my belly so that will go a long way i think when I replace my chest.

The buff from a Chaos Golem is great, but their damage is extremely lackluster and split between a default melee attack, cascade spell, and a degen aura, making them very hard to support for damage. You might as well use a normal Unset ring and forget about them dealing any damage.

The Flame Golem is strong, but we're not a golemancer. We don't stack a dozen Primordial Harmonies to get their skill cooldowns down to a second. Magma Ball, the Flame Golem's best spell, has a 6 second base cooldown.

Plugging a 5L Flame Golem into my build in PoB, I get:

---
Flame Golem (21/20)
+ Minion Damage (20/0)
+ Combustion (20/0)
+ Greater Multiple Projectiles (20/0)
+ Spell Echo (20/0)

Magma Ball (6sec cooldown)
12,278 average hit
5 projectiles
2 casts per 6 seconds
= 122,780 damage (assuming all projectile AOEs overlap)
= 20,463 DPS due to cooldown

Immolate (no cooldown)
7,832 average hit
1.6 cast rate
12,531 DPS

Flame Wave (2sec cooldown)
10,092 average hit

This doesn't even beat our 1L Holy Relic.


---
You'd have better luck with an Ice Golem:

Ice Golem (21/20)
+ Minion Damage (20/0)
+ Multistrike (20/0)
+ Melee Physical Damage (20/0)
+ Bloodlust (20/0)

Default melee attack
22,264 average hit
4.88 attack rate
108,703 DPS

Cyclone (6sec cooldown)
17,780 average hit
4.88 attack rate
173,615 DPS (repeated 3 times due to Multistrike working with this version of Cyclone)

Ice Spear (2sec cooldown)
8,771 average hit


---
And for good measure, the Holy Relic:

Holy Relic (21/20)
+ Minion Damage (20/0)
+ Vile Toxins (20/0)
+ Controlled Destruction (20/0)
+ Empower (20/0)

79,208 average hit
158,416 DPS


---
Why not:

Raging Spirits (21/20)
+ Minion Damage (20/0)
+ Melee Physical Damage (20/0)
+ Spell Totem (20/0)
+ Multiple Totems (20/0)

2,504 average hit
5.26 attack rage
13,180 DPS each

1.62 cast rate x 5 second duration x 3 totems
= 24.3 possible spirits = 20 cap reached
= 263,580 total DPS (20 Spirits)

Substituting Multiple Totems for Bloodlust is only 211k, because you'll only get 8 spirits out. You'd have to invest in cast speed and duration somewhere to make Multiple Totems fall out of favor.


---
In the end, we can't surpass the DPS of even 1 Skeleton with Hungry Loop, so if you really want to incorporate it, then it'd be better to think in terms of utility.

---

@ Theron_R:

"

Sorator13 wrote:

"

Theron_R wrote:

Hey there, I'm a fairly novice player and this will be my second build to try out for the next league. It sounds really fun. I just need to know - is the play style and skills used controller-friendly? Like will there be any need for precise targeting? I play on Xbox. :P

I haven't played on console, so idk how exactly the controls work. But I would think the only thing that might be tricky is choosing the right corpse to raise as a spectre. On PC, we can hold a button to allow the targeting of corpses, hover over them to see their names, and make sure we're on the right one before we press the raise spectre button.

If that's workable - and mind that you'll never be doing that under time pressure, so it doesn't really need to be easy, just doable - then I'd think this would be fine. Minions do most of the work, so you don't have much targeting to begin with, and what you do have isn't that sensitive.

Edit: You will have some skills to juggle, like summoning Holy Relic, activating your auras, summoning a Golem if you're using one, activating Animated Guardian if you're using one. Stuff that you won't use in combat (have to turn on auras after rezzing if you die, have to summon Relic/golem/maybe guardian when you log in, may have to do them when you switch weapon sets for Desecrate to raise spectres depending where you put the skill gems), but will need to do out of combat, and it probably will require reassigning skills to activate/summon stuff and then switching back before you get going. But I'm assuming console can do that about as easily as PC.

If you can play other builds, then this build should be even easier. Minions deal your damage, so they take care of aiming for the most part. Even if you're lagging out, your minions are just as capable as any monster and can clear the way without you even knowing what's going on.

You use Charged Dash to cast Ball Lightning in the general direction of monsters, Shield Charge to dodge and quickly get around, and place Skeletons on top of bosses. Use a flask as needed. That's it while playing.

Aside from that, you just set up and toggle on a few skills when you first log in (auras don't need to stay on you skill bar to continue working). The most complicated thing will be setting up your Spectres with Corpse Targeting to get the right monster. Once you've secured level 84 Spectres, you'll pretty much never need to do this again.