Can we talk a bit about new Poison compared to old double dipping?

So this is how old double dipping looked like



neww many things are added perfect agony, poison chance to deal double damage, pathfinder, heard of agnoy

also im only finding people saying perfect agony is a damage loss doesnt give any bonus damage???





so these new poison is just troll or good?

ele molten strike 1 shot bosses easy so why poison?



or you guys have some cool build idea to build around poison? let me know if its fun to play.

I got one under Ranger. It's fun, super cheap and different, can do Uber Elder and a few have reached depth 600 but poison will never be as broken as it used to be. Poison alone probably won't ever be T1 damage anymore in any build because GGG doesn't know that they added 4 million phases to bosses.

Also for me it doesn't matter how strong Molten Strike is. It's such a boring skill that I'll never make a build for it, or play one.

Because you are not supposed to one shot t16 bosses wiht a crummy 5 link 8C build.

How much does that ele meatball build cost?

Some players consider poison fun, that's why it exists. I am one of those players.

The whole "PA gives me less damage on paper" sounds about as reasonable as saying "when I pick avatar of fire on an ele hit build, I lose about a third of my dps, wouldn't do more damage with just picking EE instead".

It's one of the keystones I really like. It has a drawback for most builds, but also offers a significant boost in power for highly specialised ones.
All the calculations that are shown here basically assume equal investment in ailment and hit damage and NO investment in ailment duration. Which is a pretty important stat for poison builds at least.
I mean, why do you have 100% chance to poison on hit in those calculations if you don't have any significant investment in poison? The examples just don't seem anywhere near reasonable to me.

I agree that it needs a buff though, since I usually find little reason to use it over Coralito's signature. A few mana/life gained on hit nodes or crit multi for ailments and ailment duration behind it would make it a LOT more attractive.

well poison is still good vs trash and great vs things with high health bars. where it sucks is when you need to one shot things, because it will not do that.

as kiss said, the phasing on majority of bosses will downright null and void really good poison builds anyway.

poison will never be as good as old double dipping - thats because it was broken as fuck and needed a good kick in the pants. it will never be that good again because nothing should be that good.

that molten strike clip you put, i have no idea what build that is from, but that is a lot of damage. there are many other builds that can do that much damage as well, though.
its hard to say how such a build would work with almost anything other than boss killing, because again we have no idea what build its from.

i love molten strike as a skill, personally. i currently do elemental damage versions but i'd love to get a poison version to work as well as i'd like, but i always find builds like that lack severely in the defensive category, and they don't really kill much faster to make too big of a difference.

assassin poison molten strike, can do uber elder with a wasp nest, solid defences:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2104647

it's not as broken as full conversion firestorm traps used to be. but it's a hell of a lot tankier.

PA is pretty bad because you need a fairly heavy investment before it comes out ontop, luckily you never actually have to take the node because coralito's signature is so ballin for poison builds.

Do think poisons a bit disappointing these days but it all depends on where the bar is supposed to be set, you can get amazing dps out of it if you ignore the rampup time obviously but it never really shines.

I've kinda made the assumption recently that poison isn't the problem at the moment, its that you can do a crit double strike stat stick build and do 5mil instantly. Compared to that most things look bad.

I don't really think GGG care or they'd adjust the scaling options, if you think about it its now pretty laughable that they reduced power charges by 10% when you consider how easy it is to now get extra crit.

At some point in the GGG offices they had a meeting and decided they were tired of attempting balance and they'd just embrace power creep, I actually think double dipping wouldn't even look out of place dps wise anymore I kinda miss it. At least ignite was viable.

"

xMustard wrote:

well poison is still good vs trash and great vs things with high health bars. where it sucks is when you need to one shot things, because it will not do that.

as kiss said, the phasing on majority of bosses will downright null and void really good poison builds anyway.

poison will never be as good as old double dipping - thats because it was broken as fuck and needed a good kick in the pants. it will never be that good again because nothing should be that good.

that molten strike clip you put, i have no idea what build that is from, but that is a lot of damage. there are many other builds that can do that much damage as well, though.
its hard to say how such a build would work with almost anything other than boss killing, because again we have no idea what build its from.

i love molten strike as a skill, personally. i currently do elemental damage versions but i'd love to get a poison version to work as well as i'd like, but i always find builds like that lack severely in the defensive category, and they don't really kill much faster to make too big of a difference.

That is a standard ele molten strike build with full mirror tiered gear. Molten ten strike with normal gear's damage is high, but no where near that kind of damage.

Poison deals 20% of base damage, with 2 seconds default duration, which equates to 40% added damage per hit. Assuming generously that investment in poison duration ups that number to 8 seconds, it means poison adds 160% of base damage to your base damage. However, your hit damage is nonexistent if you want to scale poison somewhat reasonably (double dipping nerf), it means this 160% added damage is all of your damage. Or in other words, converting to poison alone is a 60% more multiplier to your damage. So it's still quite good.

Of course, the only way to achieve such poison duration is with Assassin, which is not good defensively because it has almost no defensive mechanics. Noxious Strike and Toxic Delivery are excellent nodes. The crit nodes alone are good. But poison and crit don't go well together, because of how shitty Perfect Agony is. So you basically only have 2 Ascendancy points to work with for Assassin. For normal classes, you can hope to have 100% increased poison duration at best, which translates to 60% added damage (3s duration with 20% damage each), which is actually a negative multplier because again, we don't count the 100% from base damage because hit damage with poison build is non-existant. So poison just doesn't work for any other ascendency.

One good thing for poison this patch is how OP the Agony Crawler minion is. We don't know the actual number, but its damage is very respectable. The thing is, the crawler's damage just needs poison to work, but its damage doesnt scale off poison at all. So many builds exploit this by just investing in Poison chance and scaling with minion damage or other skills. To call these builds poison build is a stretch.

In short, outside of the Assassin, poison is still pretty terrible. If only they were to give Assassin more defensive options or buff Perfect Agony, we could see more poison play. For now, it's still playble, but it is still a glass cannon type of build that strictly restricted to assassin class.

"

xpmrz wrote:

That is a standard ele molten strike build with full mirror tiered gear. Molten ten strike with normal gear's damage is high, but no where near that kind of damage.

https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/Bentic/characters?characterName=Bentica_Del

its a delve char with decent gear no mirrored gear if you were takling about that molten strike clip

"

dvasan wrote:

"

xpmrz wrote:

That is a standard ele molten strike build with full mirror tiered gear. Molten ten strike with normal gear's damage is high, but no where near that kind of damage.

https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/Bentic/characters?characterName=Bentica_Del

its a delve char with decent gear no mirrored gear if you were takling about that molten strike clip

Oh yeah I remembered there was a thread about it and it being very expensive. Now I search the thread again, it's 60ex, not fully mirror tiered:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/9j042c/dps/

I wouldn't call 60 ex gear "decent" though. If some build can do that within 2ex budget, then we have something to complain about. With 60 ex, many builds can do that. It's just normal, the more invest, the more dps you have.