Guild "self-found"

You might consider putting a toggle on SSF leagues to enable sharing and playing together with just guild members. There's a few reasons to play SSF, but one of the biggest is (imo of course) a desire to opt out of the mainstream economy. Playing with just guildies still has that benefit, but it also simulates an adventuring guild in a really neat way. There is still the excitement of playing the game with virtual fences, and players would be encouraged to discuss their builds and strategies because loot sharing would be much more rewarding.

I don't think this deserves a whole league of its own, but if you could just toggle it on with a checkbox when you select SSF that would be chill.

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thurmack wrote:

You might consider putting a toggle on SSF leagues to enable sharing and playing together with just guild members. There's a few reasons to play SSF, but one of the biggest is (imo of course) a desire to opt out of the mainstream economy. Playing with just guildies still has that benefit, but it also simulates an adventuring guild in a really neat way. There is still the excitement of playing the game with virtual fences, and players would be encouraged to discuss their builds and strategies because loot sharing would be much more rewarding.

I don't think this deserves a whole league of its own, but if you could just toggle it on with a checkbox when you select SSF that would be chill.

It's called normal league where you just trade with your guild mates. You know, setting your own common rules and goals. Why do you need a special toggle for it? You worried about your guildies cheating on you with an external trader?

Or are you more likely wanting ladder competition between guilds, which is realistically all this would accomplish, and would be work for little return for GGG.

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Slaanesh69 wrote:

"

thurmack wrote:

You might consider putting a toggle on SSF leagues to enable sharing and playing together with just guild members. There's a few reasons to play SSF, but one of the biggest is (imo of course) a desire to opt out of the mainstream economy. Playing with just guildies still has that benefit, but it also simulates an adventuring guild in a really neat way. There is still the excitement of playing the game with virtual fences, and players would be encouraged to discuss their builds and strategies because loot sharing would be much more rewarding.

I don't think this deserves a whole league of its own, but if you could just toggle it on with a checkbox when you select SSF that would be chill.

It's called normal league where you just trade with your guild mates. You know, setting your own common rules and goals. Why do you need a special toggle for it? You worried about your guildies cheating on you with an external trader?

Or are you more likely wanting ladder competition between guilds, which is realistically all this would accomplish, and would be work for little return for GGG.

I gather you have the exact same arguments against SSF? Sure seems like people could just, as you say, set their own common rules and goals. For that matter, why have a HC variant? People could just delete their characters if they die and save GGG all the trouble of developing a HC stream.

Fortunately for all the SSF and HC players GGG doesn't seem to share your opinion. Maybe there's also an interest in a league that allows guildmates to play in a pseudo-isolated environment. Maybe not. But it sure seems like you should think through your critiques a bit more, since the game developers already incorporate elements you seem to find superfluous.

this would take unnecessary server space and it would be utterly useless.
as 2nd guy said just set your own rules.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

this would take unnecessary server space and it would be utterly useless.
as 2nd guy said just set your own rules.

I'm totally not arguing with you, but I would like to point out that tons of people kept telling the SSF folks the same thing ("set your own rules", which they actually did) and yet GGG eventually caved and created a whole couple of leagues for them.

Just sayin'. Don't hate me. :)

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Phaeded wrote:

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

this would take unnecessary server space and it would be utterly useless.
as 2nd guy said just set your own rules.

I'm totally not arguing with you, but I would like to point out that tons of people kept telling the SSF folks the same thing ("set your own rules", which they actually did) and yet GGG eventually caved and created a whole couple of leagues for them.

Just sayin'. Don't hate me. :)

it might be just me but guilds are the crappiest designs in this game up there with the lab ladder imo.
they have no use and they usually contain of that 90% player base which sometimes gives me temporary cancer in my brain when i interract with them.

"

thurmack wrote:

I gather you have the exact same arguments against SSF? Sure seems like people could just, as you say, set their own common rules and goals. For that matter, why have a HC variant? People could just delete their characters if they die and save GGG all the trouble of developing a HC stream.

Fortunately for all the SSF and HC players GGG doesn't seem to share your opinion. Maybe there's also an interest in a league that allows guildmates to play in a pseudo-isolated environment. Maybe not. But it sure seems like you should think through your critiques a bit more, since the game developers already incorporate elements you seem to find superfluous.

Sorry, I believe you have me mistaken with someone else.

You see, I played SSF before there was formal SSF - so hipster. "Setting my own rules" as it were. And I continue to play SSF. Sometimes actually on the ladder, sometimes not, it really makes no difference because I just don't trade. If you look at my post history you will see me qualifying my statements as a pure SSF player all the time.

It also appears that you need a history lesson. You see, there was this fairly popular movement external to PoE where people would join a self-imposed ladder and compete in SSF. GGG saw this and realized its reach and took steps to implement it in game with NO MODIFICATION to the base game - you simply could not trade and showed up on a different ladder. They even allowed you to "opt out" of SSF to make sure the requests for drop rate changes and the like in SSF could be easily argued away.

So take the initiative and implement something similar with other guilds and show its popularity and maybe GGG will actually notice. Otherwise, what motivation would they have to actually spend more work than they did on SSF to accommodate a guild-oriented game mechanic? Superfluous indeed.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

"

Phaeded wrote:

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

this would take unnecessary server space and it would be utterly useless.
as 2nd guy said just set your own rules.

I'm totally not arguing with you, but I would like to point out that tons of people kept telling the SSF folks the same thing ("set your own rules", which they actually did) and yet GGG eventually caved and created a whole couple of leagues for them.

Just sayin'. Don't hate me. :)

it might be just me but guilds are the crappiest designs in this game up there with the lab ladder imo.
they have no use and they usually contain of that 90% player base which sometimes gives me temporary cancer in my brain when i interract with them.

I'm sure you're exaggerating for effect (re: 90%), but even you agree that a large portion of the player base uses guilds so they evidently have a use for other people besides yourself. I'm not super involved in my guild, I mostly just share extra loot with them via the guild stash, but many of my guild mates play together on discord and are consequently friends in RL. Perhaps I am mistaken but it sure seems like a lot of people enjoy the social aspect of their guilds, and might enjoy a league that encapsulates them.

I'm not sure if the resource critiques are based on legitimate concerns (aka " unnecessary server space"). Are you under the impression that Path of Exile is a persistent world that exists in some semi-permanent state? Albeit I haven't been a software developer in decades but this system seems to be pretty clearly based on instances, generated when a user opens a new zone, and it hardly matters (from a resource perspective) if they generate an instance in one league or another. The same goes for storing characters, stashes, and items. Server resources are also generally tied to user load, so there would be functionally very little difference between running ten instances in (for example) softcore or five instances in softcore and five instances in hardcore. A GGG developer could perhaps correct me if I am misrepresenting the nature of the beast, but offhand it doesn't seem like there is a large cost in terms of system resources to have multiple league types.

All that said, there is certainly some overhead in terms of rebuilding UI screens, testing the Guild-only mechanics (when it comes to restricting the social panel), and additional ladder tracking for the forums. It may well not be worth it if there isn't an interest in the community, it's just a cost-benefit analysis that GGG will make (or maybe already has made). For SSF and HC they decided it was worth it, I suspect because those arbitrary restrictions (which, as you say, could just be set by the players themselves) still appeal to some portion of the player base (either because they like the structure or because they want to compete in a ladder-style environment). Maybe a guild-only league subtype would also thrive, maybe not. GGG probably has some stats to guide that decision.

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Slaanesh69 wrote:

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thurmack wrote:

I gather you have the exact same arguments against SSF? Sure seems like people could just, as you say, set their own common rules and goals. For that matter, why have a HC variant? People could just delete their characters if they die and save GGG all the trouble of developing a HC stream.

Fortunately for all the SSF and HC players GGG doesn't seem to share your opinion. Maybe there's also an interest in a league that allows guildmates to play in a pseudo-isolated environment. Maybe not. But it sure seems like you should think through your critiques a bit more, since the game developers already incorporate elements you seem to find superfluous.

Sorry, I believe you have me mistaken with someone else.

You see, I played SSF before there was formal SSF - so hipster. "Setting my own rules" as it were. And I continue to play SSF. Sometimes actually on the ladder, sometimes not, it really makes no difference because I just don't trade. If you look at my post history you will see me qualifying my statements as a pure SSF player all the time.

It also appears that you need a history lesson. You see, there was this fairly popular movement external to PoE where people would join a self-imposed ladder and compete in SSF. GGG saw this and realized its reach and took steps to implement it in game with NO MODIFICATION to the base game - you simply could not trade and showed up on a different ladder. They even allowed you to "opt out" of SSF to make sure the requests for drop rate changes and the like in SSF could be easily argued away.

So take the initiative and implement something similar with other guilds and show its popularity and maybe GGG will actually notice. Otherwise, what motivation would they have to actually spend more work than they did on SSF to accommodate a guild-oriented game mechanic? Superfluous indeed.

Thank you for the history lesson, it was informative.
I'm glad you enjoy the game playing it the way you like, and you don't feel the need to have a structure in place to arbitrarily add challenge to your game. Your self-regulatory muscles must be well honed.

That said, it doesn't sound like you object to the implementation of SSF, particularly since (as you say) it required no modification to the base game, even though it doesn't personally affect you since you played in that format anyway. Why then the fierce objection to essentially the same thing but for guilds? I hear you that there was an external push for SSF, or rather an external movement that lead to some development changes to accommodate, so maybe they won't build a guild system without a similar external force in play. That's cool, this isn't a passionate personal request on my part - it's just a suggestion. A suggestion that I think some players might like, which (again, as you put it) requires no modification to the base game.

Let's take out our passive aggressive insults and get to the point:

What is GGG's motivation to add this to the game? Is it popular? Would people be more inclined to want to play the game with this included?

Because clearly that was the drive to include formalized SSF.

You even commented that you are not "passionate" about it, so why would GGG want to implement it?

My intimation, obviously, is no. I am "fiercly" against it, I am "fiercly" against GGG taking resources away from attention on continuing to improve the game - as a primarily single player game with persistent online elements to allow grouping and guilds.....but focused on single player content.

You can also see in my post history (fierce) objections to every form of specialized group or guild or MMO design elements that exclude the single player. Holy trinity design, special guild/group benefits or leagues. And that is what you are suggesting.

You may get your wish someday, but up to THIS point, this game at its core has been single player.