When will you fix Vaal's "one shot" slam attack? It's really unfair with the latency.
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DeF46 wrote:
So how many charges does it take to down Merciless Vaal solo?
Too many to count. One of the beef with the game, btw. Shit takes forever to kill (as melee). Earlier today I just gave up on fighting a regenerating elite chaos snake with endurance charge. Can never bring it down to 90% HP, it keeps running + regenning.
So how many charges does it take to down Merciless Vaal solo?
Too many to count. One of the beef with the game, btw. Shit takes forever to kill (as melee). Earlier today I just gave up on fighting a regenerating elite chaos snake with endurance charge. Can never bring it down to 90% HP, it keeps running + regenning.
Viper Strike is very helpful with those. Actually it works quite well with all bosses. I practiced this yesterday on Vaal, but it's best with Increased Duration for Vaal and Piety otherwise it's a little slow. Nugi used the same for Merciless Piety on his "SMASH" character (1 week race league).
If V.S. is levelled, you can use a crappy Sabre so it's really fast to add 4 charges. on my character I can simply replace Dual Strike for V.S. for a boss, and have Faster Attacks support. If you drop Vulnerability on top, it adds 40% increased dot damage.
It's limited to swords though so I can see why some melee builds wouldn't want to use it. Otherwise if you can sustain the mana Bear Traps with Added Fire in between attacks could give up the upper hand?
For maximum safety you still have to do this while Vaal is busy spawning adds/throwing ice/shooting lasers...
Last edited by DeF46#3887 on Mar 7, 2013, 12:24:40 PM
Can you honestly say he didn't have sufficient reaction times?
If you look closely, Vaal does not complete his rotation at a normal pace, he suddenly quickens the rotation of the "boulder arm" and the time between the end of the rotation and the slam is pretty much nil.
Here is another video showing that the arm does not complete its rotation at normal pace, and how extremely small window of time is allowed to escape the attack.
That's a pretty short sighted comment. You automatically assume that:
1) i'm suggesting to trivialize the fight which I didn't, I gave several workable solutions mainly multiple-step deadly attacks like the laser beams, or add more visual/audio cues that will give more buffer to prevent latency issues
2) that "one shot" damage type attacks makes the game interesting when the vast majority of the content doesn't "one shot" you... only a *combination* of odds against you becomes potentially "one shot", such as running into a pack of champions with some auras. Typically those situations are much more nuanced ie. there are many variables that together mean you have much more warning and you can really use your skills to best approach it
In Diablo II the bosses were interesting enough, but they also had waves of enemies that had to be fought prior to the boss (eg. Baal) ("vaal" might be a tongue in cheek reference to think of it =))... hence the boss didn't need to do insane "one shot" damage. However PoE doesn't do that so instead they try to make the boss really hard with a single, hard hitting attack.
If I remember well a weak character might just take forever to kill Baal (you'd get knockback and stunned all the time), and that's a better way to do it. Make it reasonably hard, and then use a DPS check instead of health. If you really suck at DPS then try to do it in a party or take more time farming.
Instead the "health meter" check is just extremely unforgiving and really crude. Punish a casual player who spent 2-3 weeks levelling his char to 65 with capped resists and a min. 3K HP. I think even 3700 HP which is about as good as it gets at that level for most builds, is probably not enough without Enfeeble.
It's not at all necessary to "trivialize" the fight to solve this issue. The issue specifically is that you have BOTH one shot damage and a very short time span when meleeing when you are safe, accounting for latency.
Nobody said you can't solo Vaal Merciless without dying. THe thread is suggesting to make the slam attack less crude/binary type of attack that you are forced to avoid at the cost of losing a character that's otherwise doing fine with most of the content up to that point. How do you make sense of that?
As for Hardcore League it isn't about dying to stupid damage, it's about being on your toes all the time. It's much more fun both for expert and casual players to deal with monsters that continually stress your defences, with occasionally high, but not unsurmountable damage.
Sorry I disagree. Vaal should continue to smash characters, who make mistakes, into the appropriate leagues.
That's exactly the case. You probably have missed my post prior to that one
No I didn't obviously since I already commented earlier (on page 7) on your mentioning Shield Charge... but maybe *you* didn't bother to read.
So how many charges does it take to down Merciless Vaal solo?
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Oh and please dont double post. Hit "Edit" instead.
Give me a break, the topic's just been bumped if I replied to someone since yesterday (I don't check this forum all day ...) so it doesn't make much difference. The quote system is not very easy to use sometimes it's easier to quote someone else and reply in a new post, which can also be easier to follow.
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potaco wrote:
Are there ways to avoid these kinds of deaths? Of course... Avoid melee range at all costs, group up and get help killing him, play overly cautiously by only hitting when you are essentially positive that he is in the middle of another attack... All of those things can help (and may be "smart" ways of playing in the first place), but none of them "fix" the underlying problem.
All you have to do is read the thread title. People aren't complaining about the one-shot KO itself; they're complaining about a one-shot KO coupled with the current netcode that allows for huge discrepancies between what you see on your screen and what is actually happening from the server's perspective.
Thank you. Good summary.
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Atraps003 wrote:
I've read everything and it all boils down to this. Online games are always going to have some form of desync. Removing the risk of death to counter it would make the game mind numbingly boring.
That's a pretty short sighted comment. You automatically assume that:
1) i'm suggesting to trivialize the fight which I didn't, I gave several workable solutions mainly multiple-step deadly attacks like the laser beams, or add more visual/audio cues that will give more buffer to prevent latency issues
2) that "one shot" damage type attacks makes the game interesting when the vast majority of the content doesn't "one shot" you... only a *combination* of odds against you becomes potentially "one shot", such as running into a pack of champions with some auras. Typically those situations are much more nuanced ie. there are many variables that together mean you have much more warning and you can really use your skills to best approach it
In Diablo II the bosses were interesting enough, but they also had waves of enemies that had to be fought prior to the boss (eg. Baal) ("vaal" might be a tongue in cheek reference to think of it =))... hence the boss didn't need to do insane "one shot" damage. However PoE doesn't do that so instead they try to make the boss really hard with a single, hard hitting attack.
If I remember well a weak character might just take forever to kill Baal (you'd get knockback and stunned all the time), and that's a better way to do it. Make it reasonably hard, and then use a DPS check instead of health. If you really suck at DPS then try to do it in a party or take more time farming.
Instead the "health meter" check is just extremely unforgiving and really crude. Punish a casual player who spent 2-3 weeks levelling his char to 65 with capped resists and a min. 3K HP. I think even 3700 HP which is about as good as it gets at that level for most builds, is probably not enough without Enfeeble.
It's not at all necessary to "trivialize" the fight to solve this issue. The issue specifically is that you have BOTH one shot damage and a very short time span when meleeing when you are safe, accounting for latency.
Nobody said you can't solo Vaal Merciless without dying. THe thread is suggesting to make the slam attack less crude/binary type of attack that you are forced to avoid at the cost of losing a character that's otherwise doing fine with most of the content up to that point. How do you make sense of that?
As for Hardcore League it isn't about dying to stupid damage, it's about being on your toes all the time. It's much more fun both for expert and casual players to deal with monsters that continually stress your defences, with occasionally high, but not unsurmountable damage.
Nicely said overall.
But commenting on that last part. In your scenario you can still get instagibbed by some unfortunate combinations of enemes BUT paying attention and eventual netcode fixes will always improve that situation.
Boss as it is now forces every HC char to totally abandon everything else and just build tons of life. As I mentioned, even armor for which it would make sense to help you tank does nothing against such hits. You are just a big paperdoll :)
Also it wouldn't necessarily mean we need to remove huge hits from the game. Making armor damage reduction curve to work differently would be a start for example, then tanks would be able to tank. Also reworking evasion and adding some nodes to "partially dodge huge dmg" would fix their survivability. ES is good enough as it is imho with slight boosts maybe.
I remember having quite glassy chars in d2 and I never had problems with boses (aside from mad diablo red lightning, and that was the reason few people ran diablo). Here its the opposite :P
Sorry I disagree. Vaal should continue to smash characters, who make mistakes, into the appropriate leagues.
Except most people don't solo bosses in Hardcore League there are groups going, not to mention people getting paid to kill the boss for you :/ So really your argument about leagues somehow "separating the wheat from the chaff" falls flat.
In order for your argument to be valid we'd need a new type of Hardcore League where people must solo all bosses.
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vmrob wrote:
+1 to Vaal's hammer smash. -1 to the idea of a nerf. I love that fight because it's genuinely frightening.
And somehow it's not frightening to lose say 75% of your health in Hardcore, no that's just not frightening at all I guess?
