A guide to get into Ivy League schools... What to expect and common myths.

It's not for me but I'd never call it a SCAM. Look I know guys that went just to get laid and party. For them worth it.

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鬼殺し wrote:

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erdelyii wrote:

"People are mistaken when they think that technology just automatically improves. It does not automatically improve. It only improves if a lot of people work very hard to make it better, and actually it will, I think, by itself degrade, actually. You look at great civilizations like Ancient Egypt, and they were able to make the pyramids, and they forgot how to do that. And then the Romans, they built these incredible aqueducts. They forgot how to do it." - Elon Musk

That feels a bit half-baked to me. In both cases, it's probably less that they forgot how to and simply took them for granted *and* were distracted by little things like civil unrest, slave revolts, barbarians at the gate and political upheavals. I think this is relevant now in that we definitely take this shit for granted *and* we're distracted by other things.

But don't worry, erdelyii. I definitely pause to wonder who made or designed the most basic things sometimes. Everything has some sort of work behind it -- every sign, every piece of cutlery, every piece of clothing, everything. I'm a poster child for the MBTI type INFJ, and overthinking the seemingly banal into an almost emotional response is one of my many vices.

It's hardly surprising I'd find myself at home here. :)

Oh dear. You will get to know me better, I hope! Charan, it was supposed to go with the image. This picture is derived from Greek mythology: the blind giant Orion carried his servant Cedalion on his shoulders to act as the giant's eyes. Shoulders of giants, and all.

Elon Musk is an entrepreneur, and what he said about history reflects his academic learning in that field.

It is also only possible that Elon is where he is - in a modern world - because of the work of academics carrying the spark of knowledge through some dark times; people whom Aim_Deep seems to be quite dismissive of.

Ah, I'm not so keen on MBTI typology, but it definitely is a good tool for people to reflect on - I test as an ENFJ-INFJ. More I as I get older, for sure. No wonder we end up on rambles into various facts and ideas!

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Aim_Deep wrote:

So making friends is #1 regardless then credentials.

Yep! Being personable and able to read others, to see outside one's own biases and assumptions to what others might be thinking and feeling is so important in the workplace (indeed, in life), it really ought to be taught somewhere along the line.

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erdelyii wrote:

Yep! Being personable and able to read others, to see outside one's own biases and assumptions to what others might be thinking and feeling is so important in the workplace (indeed, in life), it really ought to be taught somewhere along the line.

This, to be frank, is the largest benefit of a liberal arts degree, to the extent it is not a necessary stepping stone to something else.

That said, it's a pretty huge fucking benefit. Your earning potential (and mating potential, if you care) skyrockets when you know how to learn anything you want and relate to nearly anyone; it's just that those gains are all indirect and difficult to quantify.

It's hard to find someone defending the value of a liberal arts degree who doesn't already have one. I don't think this is confirmation bias or sunk-cost fallacious thinking (though that is a tempting conclusion) but rather an illustration of the indirect and long-term nature of the relationship between the education and the results. After all, fresh graduates with gender studies degress typically make far less than fresh graduates of vocational schools specializing in plumbing or electrical wiring. This surprises no one here, on either side of the debate.

Also, an interesting tangent: 90% of people I see pissing on liberal arts studies do not actually know what "liberal arts" even means. It's quite amazing.

Thanks for sharing... That test was pretty spot on for me.


https://www.16personalities.com/entp-strengths-and-weaknesses


ENTP

Nice to know only 3% of the population is like me... I think there’s only one or two forum posters near my level.


Edit: Devils advocate... Always.

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erdelyii wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

School is like a union card for those that can't do on their own otherwise it just slows you down. Yuge opportunity cost. JMO I could be wrong. Maybe being a sycophant to someone with real brains is worth it so there it is.

If you're talking about being an entrepreneur, then most probably.



"People are mistaken when they think that technology just automatically improves. It does not automatically improve. It only improves if a lot of people work very hard to make it better, and actually it will, I think, by itself degrade, actually. You look at great civilizations like Ancient Egypt, and they were able to make the pyramids, and they forgot how to do that. And then the Romans, they built these incredible aqueducts. They forgot how to do it." - Elon Musk

This image is beautiful. Don't tell my other half though, she isn't as large a fan of medieval art as I am.

On the point made by Elron Musk, I kinda decided to stir up the trouble pot at work a few weeks ago when the topic of Technology raised its ugly head at school. A lot of people were all in favour of bigger brighter shiner tools for the kids to use to 'be creative and learn collaboration skills'. I suggested a big sheet of butchers paper and some pencils, cheaper and more effective. Needless to say that didn't go down so well with the IT teacher who proudly proclaimed on and on about how 'that isn't how things are done in industry'. This I find ironic given most Agile development these days is done with post-it notes and a whiteboard.

Cheers,
Matt.

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鬼殺し wrote:

so your real self is like the one I constructed for the internet...


huh. kinda funny.

Yes lol... Fate. You summoned me? LOL

Heh, real hard to answer the ones to get that result. One shot:

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YOUR PERSONALITY TYPE IS:
DEBATER (ENTP-A)

So, I retook it, answering seriously the second time and got a different result from the ones I usually get [INFJ/ ENFJ]:

INTJ-A

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“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

Harlan Ellison

A paradox to most observers, Architects are able to live by glaring contradictions that nonetheless make perfect sense – at least from a purely rational perspective. For example, Architects are simultaneously the most starry-eyed idealists and the bitterest of cynics, a seemingly impossible conflict. But this is because Architect personalities tend to believe that with effort, intelligence and consideration, nothing is impossible, while at the same time they believe that people are too lazy, short-sighted or self-serving to actually achieve those fantastic results. Yet that cynical view of reality is unlikely to stop an interested Architect from achieving a result they believe to be relevant.

OMG I relate to this.

I do test F/T so there's that.

So, the forer, or Barnum effect has got to be mentioned, as does some information on why Myers=Briggs is not scientific

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The Myers-Briggs is largely disregarded by psychologists
All this is why psychologists — the people who focus on understanding and analyzing human behavior — almost completely disregard the Myers-Briggs in contemporary research.

Search for any prominent psychology journal for analysis of personality tests, and you'll find mentions of several different systems that have been developed in the decades since the test was introduced, but not the Myers-Briggs itself. Apart from a few analyses finding it to be flawed, virtually no major psychology journals have published research on the test — almost all of it comes in dubious outlets like The Journal of Psychological Type, which were specifically created for this type of research.

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It’s lonely at the top, and being one of the rarest and most strategically capable personality types, Architects know this all too well. Architects form just two percent of the population, and women of this personality type are especially rare, forming just 0.8% of the population – it is often a challenge for them to find like-minded individuals who are able to keep up with their relentless intellectualism and chess-like maneuvering. People with the Architect personality type are imaginative yet decisive, ambitious yet private, amazingly curious, but they do not squander their energy. -MTBI

OMG I relate to this (actually, I do) (But I relate to the Door Slam also...)

Jung, like his mentor/associate Freud, was a genius at tapping into ideas that just make sense on a deep level.

Even if we can't prove them, don't we all enjoy the idea of Archetypes, the Collective Unconscious and Id, Ego, Superego?


From Jung's "Red Book" (he illustrated this himself)

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essemoni wrote:

This image is beautiful. Don't tell my other half though, she isn't as large a fan of medieval art as I am.

On the point made by Elron Musk, I kinda decided to stir up the trouble pot at work a few weeks ago when the topic of Technology raised its ugly head at school. A lot of people were all in favour of bigger brighter shiner tools for the kids to use to 'be creative and learn collaboration skills'. I suggested a big sheet of butchers paper and some pencils, cheaper and more effective. Needless to say that didn't go down so well with the IT teacher who proudly proclaimed on and on about how 'that isn't how things are done in industry'. This I find ironic given most Agile development these days is done with post-it notes and a whiteboard.

I'm glad you like it :)

So, who prevailed?

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gibbousmoon wrote:

It's hard to find someone defending the value of a liberal arts degree who doesn't already have one. I don't think this is confirmation bias or sunk-cost fallacious thinking (though that is a tempting conclusion) but rather an illustration of the indirect and long-term nature of the relationship between the education and the results. After all, fresh graduates with gender studies degress typically make far less than fresh graduates of vocational schools specializing in plumbing or electrical wiring. This surprises no one here, on either side of the debate.

Also, an interesting tangent: 90% of people I see pissing on liberal arts studies do not actually know what "liberal arts" even means. It's quite amazing.

Yes. Most Liberal Arts degrees are not in Gender Studies/ Postmodernism. I think, too, that many of these less "useful" degrees are the result of education as a Product. There is big money in Education [TM]. When there are so many Institutions in the Business of selling degrees, then the market can easily become oversaturated with graduates. It's unfortunate that some of the more "artsy" degrees compound certain ways of thinking and being, and charge a lot of money at the same time.

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Charan wrote:

They seem a little oblivious to the reality that academia is where the trial and error takes place. When we are told 'scientists' have found a vaccine, that's wonderful, but goodness knows it probably took *decades* of 'useless' research to get there.

As for the much-scorned humanities fields? At our very, very best, we're the ones who inspire the practical geniuses to dream big. To look beyond their notebooks and their blackboards and their piles upon piles of research. To ask why are we doing any of this at all? What's the fucking point? And so on. I mean, the vast majority of the time we're off with the fucking pixies, but you never know what you'll bring back from those trips...

Yes.

Why can't everyone just appreciate good work well done, whether it's plumbing or star gazing?

That was droll, about school. ha! I do think interpersonal skills could be taught overtly, and there are some changes these days with bringing self-regulation concepts, meditation, mindfulness, into the curriculum.

how many of us actually have degrees of Bachelor of Science or above?

Meyer Briggs is BULLSHIT PSEUDOSCIENCE designed to make everyone feel good...! The REAL science is the BIG FIVE model! NOT EVERYONE is a winner and SOME combinations of personality traits are SHIT in terms of becoming successful! FACTS

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鬼殺し wrote:

the *only* reason I care about MBTI is that it read me like a proverbial book. If that makes me a cliche or simple or whatever, so be it. I'm so INFJ it hurts. Sometimes, literally.

I know there people who are fluid between the types, and that's cool too.

You are far from a cliche, or simple, Charan. I get it though, and fair enough. I yam what I yam.

I like that interpretation - that people can be fluid between the types. I think the subtleties do come through in a close reading with the percentages - someone getting 98% F is going to be different from 51% F that slips into T easily. F/T is super interesting to me as it's a self-report test and people with a lot of F and T vary answers according to mood.

The forced choice stuff does bother me, as for many questions I think "it depends" and "both" are fair calls.

Oh, I don't know about the door slam. It's not all bad, I think. In my experience it can feel really good to have some peace and distance from stressful people. But then I'm a Scorpio, ha!

I'm picking you're Cancerian.

Yep, astrology.

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manocean wrote:

how many of us actually have degrees of Bachelor of Science or above?

Are you thinking to begin a STEM discussion?

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IMSilver wrote:

Meyer Briggs is BULLSHIT PSEUDOSCIENCE designed to make everyone feel good...! The REAL science is the BIG FIVE model! NOT EVERYONE is a winner and SOME combinations of personality traits are SHIT in terms of becoming successful! FACTS

While there is big money in selling the Myers Briggs in a bajillion Corporate Team Building and Educational settings, I'm pretty sure the original work was designed to find the good (strengths) in everyone (and the shadows), not to "make everyone feel good".

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The researchers found that overall attributes related to conscientiousness, agreeableness, and emotional stability were considered important for a wide variety of jobs from construction to health care.

“In conclusion, our findings provide robust evidence that attributes related to Conscientiousness and Agreeableness are highly important for workforce readiness across a variety of occupations that require a variety of training and experience qualifications,” write Sackett and Walmsley.

It's telling that Openness (also known as Culture or Intellect in some versions of the Big-5) doesn't rate. And N, ah, misunderstood N. Perhaps another day.

That link doesn't work for others, Charan, it's just for you.