The joys of playing a Meta Build, and how badly Incursion can screw you without one

There is only a handful of builds that are viable.

Has always been like that

You can still make your own builds and do well, just don't make crap builds. My build is 100% my own and I have no trouble with incursions. I even cleared some 100%, though I can't do that reliably.

What the hell happened to this thread?

Anyway, my experience with Incursion league so far is positive because I play lightning-based trapper, now mainly Arc but also weaving in Lightning Spire. I also level Lightning trap gem and switch it for Arc from time to time.
I simply picked trapper because of the rework in 3.3 and because I have never played trapper before in my 3000+ hours in PoE.

What is wrong with meta builds? Games like PoE will have meta builds no matter what. Some combination of skills and talents will always be the best. If there is a new league, most people will go with the flow and pick a build/skill that will carry them through early days of a league until trading picks up. People playing SSF are even more incentivized to play well-tried builds because SSF player can not overcome skill/build deficiencies by throwing better gear at the problem. Again, what is the issue here?


Incursions challenge league is good expansion with fun mechanic that just need a bit of tweaking to be less punishing in early stage of the game but it could still scale well to end-game. I expect that GGG will ease timer pressure while players are leveling through story mode. Once people reach maps, the timer should get to a point where it is now.

I would also prefer to make the temple slightly smaller so we can visit its present time version more often.

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Baron01 wrote:

What the hell happened to this thread?

What is wrong with meta builds? Games like PoE will have meta builds no matter what. Some combination of skills and talents will always be the best.

therefore, they should be as imbalanced as possible, and punish anyone who dares to play something different.

in a game that tries to pride itself on a vast amount of skills and build diversity, no less.

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Miathan51 wrote:

You can still make your own builds and do well, just don't make crap builds. My build is 100% my own and I have no trouble with incursions. I even cleared some 100%, though I can't do that reliably.

you play ARC. skill that turns terrible builds into meta builds (nothing against your build - but you would not be able to do the same with less meta skill - like arctic breath or shock nova if you want lightning spell)



people that claim that everything is 'ok' and think that it is player error - i would like to see you make Burning Arrow character (this skill is available from the start, it got 'reworked', it even has threshold jewels) go from 1 to 70 and compare it to arc-whatever etc

anyone can be a king with a meta skill. the same people with non-meta suddenly cannot perform whatsoever

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Baron01 wrote:

What is wrong with meta builds? Games like PoE will have meta builds no matter what. Some combination of skills and talents will always be the best. If there is a new league, most people will go with the flow and pick a build/skill that will carry them through early days of a league until trading picks up. People playing SSF are even more incentivized to play well-tried builds because SSF player can not overcome skill/build deficiencies by throwing better gear at the problem. Again, what is the issue here?

There is nothing wrong with meta builds, IF they are different from each other, can excell in different tasks, etc. In PoE, those "meta builds" are all the same - oneshot everything on screen and beyond before it could even react, and move at fastest movespeed as possible. There is no real diversity in PoE, every character has to be a "glass cannon". Even if you make a tanky character, he will STILL be a "glass cannon", because enemy damage is way too high and randomized, and HP is too low. Glass cannon is actually tankier than real "tank" is that circumstances, because it wont be hit often.
And overall, PoE became "too fast". Your MS is too high, damage is too high, AoE is too high, and you die too fast as well. It is no longer a player skill-based game like Dark Souls series, where being fast and trying to yolo left-click everything wont let you progress.
Also, in PoE, there is a very large difference between "meta" and "non-meta" build. The latter, using some under-performing skill or unique, can have few times less power, that "meta" one. In well-balanced games, there is no such huge discrepancy.

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鬼殺し wrote:

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raics wrote:

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鬼殺し wrote:

This deserves to be Post Of The thread Year, so I'm giving it an appropriate colour.

Don't tease the man, it got fairly obvious the moment they started doing the themed mechanic reworks. Minion patch, poison patch, golem patch, trap patch, you know something in there will be pretty broken. On the other hand, can they even do it differently? If they try to rework something and it ends up worse or just different it will get the fail of the year sticker before you can dust off Hillock.

You are one Id consider savvy to the flickers of the curtain.

Its the way he connected the dots so elegantly. You hadnt and I hadnt so lets not pretend it was obvious just because someone made it so.

It was in fact, blatantly obvious to the point it's not worth mentioning out loud.

That it wasn't for you just tell's us more about how you perceive this game.

As for the general thread : a good build can do incursions just fine even if it's full on non-meta.
The only difference meta vs non-meta means in the current PoE is the investment requirement in the gear to make it function.

Meta is generally = pick up trash from the ground -> proceed to kill shaper

Non-meta is generally = visit trade, ponder why you don't have currency and all those others are rich while you are constantly investing in new gear to progress etc etc

Non-meta, if build correctly with sufficient game-knowledge simply means your behind on the economy curve in relation to other people going ham with whatever cookie GGG is giving out that month.

Peace,

-Boem-

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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Baron01 wrote:

What is wrong with meta builds? Games like PoE will have meta builds no matter what. Some combination of skills and talents will always be the best. If there is a new league, most people will go with the flow and pick a build/skill that will carry them through early days of a league until trading picks up. People playing SSF are even more incentivized to play well-tried builds because SSF player can not overcome skill/build deficiencies by throwing better gear at the problem. Again, what is the issue here?

There is nothing wrong with meta builds, IF they are different from each other, can excell in different tasks, etc. In PoE, those "meta builds" are all the same - oneshot everything on screen and beyond before it could even react, and move at fastest movespeed as possible. There is no real diversity in PoE, every character has to be a "glass cannon". Even if you make a tanky character, he will STILL be a "glass cannon", because enemy damage is way too high and randomized, and HP is too low. Glass cannon is actually tankier than real "tank" is that circumstances, because it wont be hit often.
And overall, PoE became "too fast". Your MS is too high, damage is too high, AoE is too high, and you die too fast as well. It is no longer a player skill-based game like Dark Souls series, where being fast and trying to yolo left-click everything wont let you progress.
Also, in PoE, there is a very large difference between "meta" and "non-meta" build. The latter, using some under-performing skill or unique, can have few times less power, that "meta" one. In well-balanced games, there is no such huge discrepancy.

Meta : most efficient tactic available.

Just like now that is arc-traps given the context(league start, low economy of items) it will be kinetic blast in roughly 2 weeks time.
The only reason people are not doing it now is because they are most likely tired of it and arc can compete with it this early in a league.

As for tank's in PoE, that's also context based because

1) it is entirely possible to create tanks in PoE
2) since it's a multiplayer game with trading, you need economic incentive to actually make such a build(appart from going against the natural flow and enjoying that)

I am sure people make tanks in the hardcore league to do boss services because in that context they can combine building a tank with economic incentive.

Peace,

-Boem-

My conclusion after almost finishing my first 2 incursions (only managed to kill archi) and actually finishing my third (kill archi and open door) that everyone complaining about incursions hasn't played a new charater in the last 10 hours. The timer is a lot more fair than it was originally. I don't even have melee splash on my zombies or srs yet and I'm doing fine. What am I doing right with my weak sauce build at level 10 that you can't manage?

srs without melee splash is shit and everyone knows it.

I can do incursions just fine.

therefore, you're doing something wrong with your vigilant-strike-because-it-exists autist build.

So everything is fine yet there are skills that just dont work?

Ice nova
Burning arrow
Sweep
Ice trap

Id like one of you 'good game knowledge guys' to make a good build with one of these.
It is simple but requires some currency, isnt it?

I doubt it. Some skills are junk. Power chasm between meta and regular is beyond idiotic and GROWS each patch..

I wonder what people will play after their arc leveling builds. Because thwre are hardly any stronger builds that this 'leveling' setup. Blade vortex? Spectres? Arc should beat them both.

In week or two people will get their arc totemers and others no ivestment 'anyone can be a hero' setups to 90s and will start looking for another build. But then.. surprise! There is hardly anything comparable