Suggestion: Resolute Technique balancing

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DurianMcgregor wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

imo they should just vastly reduce crit multi on the tree, maybe even reduce base crit multi to 130% too. I think its actually better for non crit builds if they reduce multi rather than giving extra nodes because if it still evens out the playing field to the desired amount it doesnt cost you 3 points to get there and you end up better off, plus is doesnt force non crit to be RT, which shouldnt be forced imo.

Isn't base crit multi already 100%? I personally think it would be better to add mods to gear that can scale non crit damage.

150% I believe.


I think just halve all tree and jewel crit multi, knock base multi down to 130%, make it all about gear in order to get ur crit damage, no more freebees.

Good calls on the diamond flasks too, just ditch em or completely rework them.

I know ppl say crits got too easy, but honestly even back during the initial RT meta in open beta, when they changed the ranger tree and reworked evasion I tried out a dual wield dagger melee ranger and it was absolutely bonkers, it was significantly better than RT options even with fairly junk gears tbh. As soon as we had melee splash + multistrike to make dagger attacks actually aoe it was insane imo. It took about another 6 months or so to actually catch on and become the meta when dagger spec throw low life blah blah came along in sacrifice of the vaal but it was already there waiting to be exposed.

There's is literally no reason to go RT, with only Eagle eye, that's a super op node anyways, plus dex bonus you will always 89% chance to hit, as long as you go somewhere inside the duelist part, you pick up an insane amount of dex. Ele overload is the new RT, %40 more damage is insane, for free basically, that's the same as having %25 chance to crit and 2.6 crit multi, which is pretty hard to get, but eo you get all that free

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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DurianMcgregor wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

imo they should just vastly reduce crit multi on the tree, maybe even reduce base crit multi to 130% too. I think its actually better for non crit builds if they reduce multi rather than giving extra nodes because if it still evens out the playing field to the desired amount it doesnt cost you 3 points to get there and you end up better off, plus is doesnt force non crit to be RT, which shouldnt be forced imo.

Isn't base crit multi already 100%? I personally think it would be better to add mods to gear that can scale non crit damage.

150% I believe.


I think just halve all tree and jewel crit multi, knock base multi down to 130%, make it all about gear in order to get ur crit damage, no more freebees.

Good calls on the diamond flasks too, just ditch em or completely rework them.

I know ppl say crits got too easy, but honestly even back during the initial RT meta in open beta, when they changed the ranger tree and reworked evasion I tried out a dual wield dagger melee ranger and it was absolutely bonkers, it was significantly better than RT options even with fairly junk gears tbh. As soon as we had melee splash + multistrike to make dagger attacks actually aoe it was insane imo. It took about another 6 months or so to actually catch on and become the meta when dagger spec throw low life blah blah came along in sacrifice of the vaal but it was already there waiting to be exposed.

Nah, i had a crit dagger flicker, and while it was good, it could not compete with RT soul taker aegis aurora tanks with 40K armour. Even really cheap BoR/Aegis (sometimes with facebreakers) were insanely good and could easily get to lv100, even in hardcore (first eve lv100 in 1.1 hardcore was Aegis RT build i think).

Yeah low life spec throw later was OP as fuck but it needed hundreds of exalts. Thing is that back then you didn't need high dps (or rediculous clearspeed), and even the most high end dagger mirror builds had 100 - 500k DPS anyway. Also mob spike damage was not nearly as high. Save for Atziri in 1.1, before the hardest hits you could take was Vaal Slam in Open Beta and Touch of God in 1. Armour and evasion worked reall well in that enviroment.

Crit chance really mattered back then. Nowdays you get something like 50-60%, combine it with a diamond flask and 10+ attacks per second and you effectively nuke everything. It is part of the reason that both crit chance passives became the worst you can pick, and daggers eventually ended up being the worst crit weapon by a huge shot.

I agree with you .

RT needs crushing blow, ggg took crits from diablo 2, but left out crushing blow, you got to take all of it, or none of it, that is the reason the balance is off, if you could only hit crushing blows while you had RT. Balance would be restored

You have a chance to hit crushing blows, same as it with crits, cb's remove a % of the mobs current hp, not total hp

Crushing blow is most useful against very large monsters, or when your character deals multiple, rapid, low-damage hits. It's most noticeable early in a fight, when the monster has the most hit points and removing some fraction of them makes a big difference.

Normal monster: 1/4 Melee, 1/8 Ranged Attack.
Boss/Champion monster: 1/8 Melee, 1/16 Ranged Attack.
Player/Hireling: 1/10 Melee, 1/20 Ranged Attack.
If the damage to bosses doesn't sound like much, consider that boss monsters often have over 100,000 hit points, and substantial physical resistance. Thus one CB, even from a bow, could deal many thousands of damage, while regular hits did in the low hundreds, after physical resistance was calculated.

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I0wa wrote:

You have a chance to hit crushing blows, same as it with crits, cb's remove a % of the mobs current hp, not total hp

While I definitely agree that there's a HUGE disparity between RT and crit builds, this would actually be kinda a terrible idea for one major reason:

Culling.

In that example, it'd mean any character with culling would just be able to take that, and would kill every single boss on exactly the 18th Crushing blow, (13th for Slayers) which would drop them to below 10% and proc the cull. We'd just be trading one toxic meta (stack crits) for an even worse one (stack AS and %CB) and delete bosses impossibly fast no matter HOW much they scaled up.

Now, Diablo 2 got away with this because there was no "instant kill" threshold: there were multiple mechanics that dealt damage entirely based upon the target's current health, (the Lightning Field spell, as well as the damage dealt by open wounds) but nothing that'd capitalize on being able to quickly cut enemies down to a fraction of their maximum health; you'd still have to kill them the rest of the way.

Even still, such a mechanic was PROBABLY reflective of some of the poor balance the game has; in the near two-decades since its release, mechanically D2 hasn't exactly aged well...

Lastly, note that boss HP levels are probably a good deal higher than you might be imagining. For each set of tiers, bosses have generally the same baseline health:

• White Maps: 387,775; 439,142; 501,216; 577,786; 666,566.
  
• Yellow Maps: 771,613; 895,076; 1,036,933; 1,199,279; 1,387,616.
  
• Red Maps: 1,605,336; 1,852,640; 2,147,393; 2,492,371; 2,886,311.
  
• Guardians: 9,535,418 (Chimera/Hydra) and 12,470,588 (Minotaur/Phoenix)
  
• Atziri: 1,172,846 or 5,024,900
  
• Uber Izaro: 8,813,933
  
• Shaper & Uber Elder: 18,328,731 (4,582,182 per ¼)

Even cleaving off 1% of their average health (which'd take 161 or 230 hits to Slay/cull, BTW) you'd also still start off chunking up to 183,287 health; this is BETTER than that much raw damage, since it bypasses the 30-40% elemental/15-25% chaos resistance bosses have.

Even going for the "average" you'd add on while mowing them down... That'd be equivalent to an extra 71,721 (Culler) or 91,074 (Slayer) "true" damage per hit.

If we really wanted to change the mechanics to make RT stand out (such as to justify its existence when Lycosidae is a thing) might be to simply address damage mechanics.

Simply give it "you are lucky when damaging enemies" or perhaps even an outright "Your hits always roll for maximum damage" to hold with the theme. Simply (though power-creepy like every other "fix") and not too imbalanced; only potential concern is that it'd more strongly favor lightning-based builds, (e.g, mandatory on Hyaon's Fury) but even in the most extreme cases would only approximately double its DPS. (e.g, the average hit would go from 50% of the max, to 100%)

Crushing blow is not a bad idea if only RT provides a small chance of landing one (1 to 10%), lower chance for fast hitting builds and higher chance for slower ones.

The problem is not crit multiplier nor crit chance on passive tree. It is base crit chance on some weapons.

If you use a 5% crit chance weapon. You will find DPS on RT or crit BD is similar. Especially, non-sword weapons which have no accuracy implicit property, RT is better than crit.

So it is not to change any passives, it should be to change weapon base property. (After abyssal jewel introducing, weapon base property was totally borken. Slow weapons became useless.)

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ACGIFT wrote:

If we really wanted to change the mechanics to make RT stand out (such as to justify its existence when Lycosidae is a thing) might be to simply address damage mechanics.

Simply give it "you are lucky when damaging enemies" or perhaps even an outright "Your hits always roll for maximum damage" to hold with the theme. Simply (though power-creepy like every other "fix") and not too imbalanced; only potential concern is that it'd more strongly favor lightning-based builds, (e.g, mandatory on Hyaon's Fury) but even in the most extreme cases would only approximately double its DPS. (e.g, the average hit would go from 50% of the max, to 100%)

I love this idea - the bolded part especially - as it bridges the gap in an "elegant" way. It just requires maybe an additional tuning threshold for those isolated cases where your damage output with RT could rival a moderate investment in Crit...

The fun aspect is that this is an approximate 25% more damage multiplier, which can also be reduced to 12.5% if it would be applied on every second hit.

Knowing GGG, they will condition it, so I wouldn't expect anything less than "Your hits ALWAYS roll maximum damage IF you hit an enemy recently/Your every second hit always rolls maximum damage IF you hit an enemy recently."

And I support this idea fully, as Crit needs to still be the best damage outputting method, but RT deserves a "bone thrown" it's way...