XP Death Penalty level 90+

To GGG:

The death penalty is too high after level 90 especially when you die so quick you cannot see what the hell happened.

I have raged quit for the last time and ggg will no longer get any more support from me.



Spelling mistake edit.

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Lorcain wrote:

The death penalty is too high after level 90 especially when you die so quick you cannot see what the hell happened.

The problem is not the death penalty... It is that either your build or equipment is not good enough to progress any further, or your skills as a player are not good enough.

You are not 'entitled' to reach L100, just as not every football player is 'entitled' to play in the champions league. You're only entitled to progress as far as your level of skill (character building, equipment gathering and playing skill) allows.

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Cyzax wrote:

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Lorcain wrote:

The death penalty is too high after level 90 especially when you die so quick you cannot see what the hell happened.

The problem is not the death penalty... It is that either your build or equipment is not good enough to progress any further, or your skills as a player are not good enough.

You are not 'entitled' to reach L100, just as not every football player is 'entitled' to play in the champions league. You're only entitled to progress as far as your level of skill (character building, equipment gathering and playing skill) allows.

Wrong.

The sole problem of the death EXP penalty is the lack of adequate content, and the additional EXP gain penalties superimposed.

If you could fight enemies of level >90 (as dangerous as they might be), you could "shrug off" the deaths just as you do before level >95. Simple as that.

Forcing players to "mindlessly grind" EXP "ROFL STOMPING" content aka carelessly obliterating "EXP & loot" piñatas on tier 10-11 maps (almost, if not even more efficiently that on tier >14 maps) and/or skipping dangerous encounters like multi-modded essences, breaches, abysses etc. - if not "opie-op meta" - was the wrong decision.

And as long as you can progress even at a "snail pace" versus "brain dead easy" content, you're actually "ENTITLED" to have a character level 100. It's just that GGG goes about the "PoE experience aka journey from level 1 to 100" the WRONG WAY - I'm as casual n00b hoarder as anyone else, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't try to improve myself as long as that way I could have even more "fun" - we are actually playing an ARPG, where "progression" and "character improvements" are core aspects of the genre...

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Wrong.

The sole problem of the death EXP penalty is the lack of adequate content, and the additional EXP gain penalties superimposed.

If you could fight enemies of level >90 (as dangerous as they might be), you could "shrug off" the deaths just as you do before level >95. Simple as that.

The only reason for level 100 to even exist is to specifically give players a grind, to give them a journey. It doesn't provide you with anything else other than bragging rights in some cases. 3-5 skillpoints just don't matter.
These changes and entitlement BS won't happen in PoE because a lot of players love this game just for the grind and their own journey.

Enjoy the journey you create for yourself or play a different game where everybody has the same boring journey that ends after 1 week. You don't have to ruin the game for others just because level 100 is too difficult for you.

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Scarletsword wrote:

The only reason for level 100 to even exist is to specifically give players a grind, to give them a journey. It doesn't provide you with anything else other than bragging rights in some cases. 3-5 skillpoints just don't matter.
These changes and entitlement BS won't happen in PoE because a lot of players love this game just for the grind and their own journey.

Enjoy the journey you create for yourself or play a different game where everybody has the same boring journey that ends after 1 week. You don't have to ruin the game for others just because level 100 is too difficult for you.

A reasonable sentiment, expressed in a mature manner, but none the less, one that I do not entirely share. For me, it's about moving forward, making progress even if decidedly incrementally. I can grind away if I feel that it is for a purpose (and for me, grinding is not its own reward). Eventually I reach a point where the possibility of finding something that could materially improve my situation is too slight as to be be motivational. But watching that experience bar creep forward does provide motivation - and watching it fall back is at first bracing, then challenging, then annoying, then discouraging and eventually character ending. Hey, I could even buy into that that is the way it should be - but I think that it happens far too early in the levelling process, particularly for the players who are not in the top echelons. I say the Death Penalty has an important role to play in the game experience, but that it ramps up too quickly (for me, it definitely gets a bit much in the mid to high 80's). Getting GGG to (once again) adjust the Death Penalty is a long haul process - but hopefully that is a grind that I will outlast.

The Death Penalty is not the issue... By the time your lvl 90+ if you have not geared your build to survive the most common causes of death and know how to roll maps then chances are the issue is with your build and and it not being made well enough to tackle to content you throw at it. A build pushing for lvl 100 MUST be durable enough to overcome the exp pen by brute force because simply put the absolute BEST way to overcome the exp pen? Do Not Die!!! and.. Map as fast as you can. And Prepare for even if the Death Penalty didnt exist or you make your build durable enough to never die ever again while mapping.. You probably STILL wont be able to overcome the extreme Exp Penalty that only multiplies with each even beyond 90..

Keep in mind this is coming from someone who has played this game for 5+ years and only yesterday hit my first lvl 95 character. I have two 94s 2 or 3 93s a handful of 92s, 91s, and 90s each... Level 90 is pretty much the point where my builds are complete and should be able to do everything they were made to do. Even IF the death pen did No Longer Exist... Most likely you would STILL not hit lvl 100 at least not within the span of a 3 month league. Because im not sure how much past 90 you have ever gone but i can tell you lvl 90 isn't shit and if you cant overcome the exp pen to lvl past 90.. 95 is WAY beyond your reach even. And 95 is where the exp penalty really starts to kick in. Where your gonna have to start chaining hundreds of maps per day and still take countless hours. From there its ALL about the endless grind.

Its a Grind and one GGG are dead set on being a fucking time vampire. Even if you overcome the Death Pen the Exp Pen even without ever dieing in maps gets so brutal most of you guys STILL wont make it to 100.. Even after overcoming the Death Pen your still faced with the Grind. All the Death Penalty does is require you to pay attention when you map.. And make your build at least decent enough to map and not die. Only reason why the build im playing now made it to 95 and still climbing is because im still enjoying the build. Most of my builds once ive did everything with it and finished it its time to move on to the next. But it doesn't die even with chasing red tier elder. But that said i have no illusions of going for 100 simply because by the time i hit lvl 97-98 and especially 99 when you do probably 100 maps for 1%? Yeah probably not gonna be my thing but thats cool. Its my choice and one i make based on reason. Based on what its took to get to 95 where the past 3 lvls ive not died even once... How much time it STILL took..

And NO ONE is "ENTITLED" to SHIT!!! You want something? Go Out And Earn It!!! If you want it bad enough... You'll get it. You will figure out a way. Crying on the forums isn't one of them either btw..

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Scarletsword wrote:

Spoiler

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Wrong.

The sole problem of the death EXP penalty is the lack of adequate content, and the additional EXP gain penalties superimposed.

If you could fight enemies of level >90 (as dangerous as they might be), you could "shrug off" the deaths just as you do before level >95. Simple as that.

The only reason for level 100 to even exist is to specifically give players a grind, to give them a journey. It doesn't provide you with anything else other than bragging rights in some cases. 3-5 skillpoints just don't matter.
These changes and entitlement BS won't happen in PoE because a lot of players love this game just for the grind and their own journey.

Enjoy the journey you create for yourself or play a different game where everybody has the same boring journey that ends after 1 week. You don't have to ruin the game for others just because level 100 is too difficult for you.

GGG still went the wrong way about it.

I'm not complaining about the "grind", but about the "mindless" part of it. As I said, if we had content with normal monsters as dangerous as rare/unique beasts or multi modded essences for content level >90, and everything a lot more "rippy", but based on attrition instead of "one shot" scenarios, you would have the same "grind", but with the difficulty "cranked to 11" as PoE could and should bring back the "HARDCORE" feeling (you could waste the same amount of time for the same 1% progress on the bar, you would be instead a lot more prone to dying if you make a mistake and/or are not prepared build/item/skill/skillplay wise for said content, without it being so "gated").

I'm actually a supporter for a harsher yet fairer death penalty, that would ALWAYS discourage "zerging" (having one chance to complete all Izaro encounters is the way to go, bosses should be reset to full health upon a death). I'm also in favor of having the current system, where you can advance as a "snail" by "grinding" easier content, but the optimal way to advance and test your character should be versus content a lot more dangerous than 99.99% of the players with a level 100 character did.

How many of the players with a level 100 character reached it by leveling from 99 to 100 (to never say 90 to 100) via ONLY the "end game" grinds like Uber Atziri/Izaro, Shaper, Elder, Uber Elder? How many do/did that without "ROFL STOMPING" an easier shaped map, or without joining EXP rotations (Poorjoy or Beachhead come to mind)? If that would be an option, to face "gud enuf" content to actually kill you and make you feel "puny", wouldn't that entice "more improvements" even during leveling from 99 to 100?

Try capping your damage with RT, using a namelocking "real" dual wielding skill (one that alternates both weapons), and then explore all "end game" content in a quest to advance to 100 by doing only that. It's a slap on every player face that GGG allows skipping bosses without a penalty. It's a further slap the rampant "power creep" that ensures they can't "balance" fights as some characters deal 1000% more damage than others. But the most hurtful slap is their choice to not make players IMPROVE even for those last 10 levels on their journey to 100.



As long as you invest the time in the grind, you're "ENTITLED" to a level 100 character as that is simply how GGG chose to "play their cards", it's just that dying sets you back and "prolongs" the grind - I know it's possible as I have a character level 98 + 70% with a death for every 3.5 hours played (a bit skewed as I played for a while a CoD build before 2.0)...

You just need to sink in the time and "maybe" pay attention, depending on what you're farming. THAT'S ALL.

And I do think that there is space for an alternate "leveling" option at least...

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Lorcain wrote:

To GOG:

The death penalty is too high after level 90 especially when you die so quick you cannot see what the hell happened.

I have raged quit for the last time and gog will no longer get any more support from me.

When's the next hc one month challenge league? Kids won't last

Personally I think people complaining that 100 should be a near impossible feat to people are just being silly. The problem though actually isn't the death penalty. The problem is the grind for xp unless you're playing an optimal build with an optimal style is basically trash and GGG loves to nerf level 95+ xp to promote a slightly longer race to 100 in the leagues. This makes the death penalty seem far more pronounced, since it is literally 10x as much time investment, if not more than what the ladder pushers pull (who will always play a fast clearing build in an optimal way).

As far as blaming death on having a survivable build is probably a false accusation. I have a build that can survive just about everything, as LONG as I see it coming. Most of my deaths are to on kill effects, and my last one was to about 10 revenant corpse explosions. Didn't even realize there WERE revenants on the map. My fault entirely, but also far more dangerous than just about anything people normally experience, and there really isn't a way to protect against it. You could say it's like people how people used to complain about reflect. It's the same basic principle. The game sometimes just kills you, no matter what build you're playing. The only way to avoid it is to play extremely easy content, which gets boring very quickly.

The game is unforgiving. Losing 10% xp sucks. Dying out of nowhere sucks. I can't remember how many times I alt + f4 this game because I was so fucking pissed. I almost broke a finger during Royale punching random shit after being 2nd for the 3rd time. I've been using all my free time for the last 2 days making an item filter because I was so mad after dying twice and going from 63% to 43% in 2 minutes that creating the filter has been more relaxing than playing the game.

That said, the game is fun because it is hard. If you want to relax go play something else. What made me fall in love with PoE is the fact that it is challenging. And yeah, challenging is not everyone's cup of tea, specially nowadays when everyone is entitled to everything.

Now swallow your tears and try again. Or move on. Just don't ask GGG to ruin their game because you can't deal with frustration.