haku mod should read 'hits with this weapon can't be evaded'

If you dual wield and one weapon has the Haku mod 'hits can't be evaded' this only applies to this weapon. I assume this is working as intended but the description of the effect should be 'hits with this weapon can't be evaded' because that is what it does.

It's Vagan's mod, not Haku's.

Secondly, it's a local mod and works the same as every other local mod. Only applying to hits with the weapon. Just like Essentia Sanguis' leech to ES only applies when that is the weapon that hits. Not seeing a bug here.

It certainly bugs enough people that it should count as a bug. Local mods that could just as easily be global mods should say they are local.

"

Vipermagi wrote:

the modifier specifically states it applies to Hits

This is probably part of the reason why so many people find it ambiguous. It's not like things other than hits can be evaded. If it's just referring to the weapon, why does it need to specify hits in general? Why not just say "Can't be evaded", for eg?

"

The rule of thumb is "if a modifier can be local, it is local"

This rule of thumb is only needed in a few situations, though, since most of the mods on weapons are obviously either local or global. And in the cases it is needed, it is often wrong.

The Tempestuous Steel is a great item to help illustrate why this rule of thumb is not very useful:

"

Adds (5-8) to (15-20) Physical Damage
(8-14)% increased Attack Speed

These are obviously local, since they change the local values on the weapon, and you can see the effect they have since the text changes colour on the affected stats. You don't need a rule of thumb to work it out.

"

Hits can't be Evaded

The mod in question. Note that it comes just before the mod below:

"

Attacks with this Weapon Penetrate 30% Elemental Resistances

This mod could be local even if it didn't specify it. Why specify it? It seems like the reason it says "with this weapon" is to avoid ambiguity.

"

Gain 15% of Physical Attack Damage as Extra Lightning Damage
Gain 15% of Physical Attack Damage as Extra Fire Damage

These could easily be local, since the weapon does physical attack damage. So according to the rule of thumb, they should be local, right?

I think the real rule of thumb is more likely "If a modifier can be local *in the code*, then it is local."
"Hits can't be evaded" is a local mod in the code, which is why it is local. "Attacks Penetrate 30% Elemental Resistances" is not a local mod in the code, but "Attacks with this Weapon Penetrate 30% Elemental Resistances" is. "Gain 15% of Physical Attack Damage as Extra Fire Damage" can't be a local mod in the code, so it is global.

"

Vipermagi wrote:

That said, if they were local, their Damage values would be listed on the item description.

Good point! I think if all local mods were represented somehow in the item description, there would be much less of an issue.

"

So, I strongly disagree with "[..]in the cases it is needed, it is often wrong.", because it actually only rarely is.

I decided to check this out by going to the list of uniques, choosing the first list (one handed axes), and checking mods that you need the rule of thumb for to see how well it stacks up. (Note I am asserting that mods which affect the item description don't need the rule of thumb. Also note I am using poedb to tell if the mods are local or global.)

+(5-7) Life gained on Kill (Global - can't the base item kill things, though?)

Curse Enemies with Level 10 Flammability on Hit (Global, because it has to do with another skill granted to you by the mod?)

Culling Strike (Global - I can't see why from the rule of Thumb, though!)

2% of Physical Attack Damage Leeched as Life (Local, Rule of Thumb is correct here.)

25% of Physical Damage Converted to Cold/Lightning Damage (Global, as discussed above. This could be a really interesting local mod, though!)

Insufficient Mana doesn't prevent your Melee Attacks (Global, because the base item doesn't use mana I guess? But then, it doesn't hit by itself either.)

Your Physical Damage can Chill (Global, because?)

Hits ignore Enemy Monster Fire Resistance while you are Ignited (Global, because the base item doesn't deal fire damage, even though the unique in question also has a local fire damage mod.)

25% chance to cause Bleeding on Hit (Local, chalk up another one for the rule of thumb.)

40% increased Physical Weapon Damage while Dual Wielding (Global, because the base item isn't dual-wielded by default? Or because there's a secondary rule of thumb which says conditional mods can't be local?)

--------------------
PS: Also, "Gain a Flask Charge when you deal a Critical Strike" is Global, although it's not on a 1-hand axe I thought it was noteworthy enough to be worth pointing out as well.

I think there's sufficient evidence there to show that the proposed rule of thumb is about as useful as i before e except after c.

Thanks for pointing those out!

"

"Insufficient Mana doesn't prevent your Melee Attacks (Global, because the base item doesn't use mana I guess? But then, it doesn't hit by itself either.)"
Swinging a weapon does hit things, it does not spend Mana. Skills do.

How can you swing a weapon without using a skill? Or is 'basic attack' considered to be part of the weapon somehow?

"

And I repeat: there have been plenty of questions of whether a modifier is local or not even when it's "obvious". People have come and asked why Ethereal Knives doesn't scale with their wand's Increased Phys Damage. You don't need the rule of thumb for %IPD, but other people do. It is true more often than not.

People ask all sorts of questions, and misunderstand things regardless of how they are worded. I think that "increased physical damage" on a weapon is sufficiently unambiguous because it visibly changes the local stats of the weapon. (Not sufficiently unambiguous to prevent all confusion, just sufficient for people who know what it means to not think it's too ambiguous.)
I realise people will still find it confusing; they would find it confusing even if it said 'local' or 'with this weapon'.

"

Vipermagi wrote:

"Or because there's a secondary rule of thumb which says conditional mods can't be local?"
This isn't a rule of thumb, but a hard rule: conditional modifiers are always global.
(also relevant for 'ignore Fire Res/Ignited' mod)

So Dyadus' "Adds (255–285) to (300–330) Cold Damage in Off Hand" is not a conditional mod?