Why do you Want communism?

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CanHasPants wrote:

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Boem wrote:

Re-write that entirely, because it's very poorly constructed to understand.

Nah, it makes sense, but I’ll outline it for you anyways. I’m pretty much just repeating myself, but perhaps bullet points will help?

-People are inherently bad at governing anything
-As such, self governance is preferable when possible, because
—the consequences of failure are mostly internalized, and
—that which is externalized is limited in proximity.
-People become better at governing more complex systems as more people participate; however,
—we are still natural selection’s bitches, and
—any attempt to replace natural selection with central planning increases the magnitude and proximity in which failure is externalized.
-It is important to note that natural selection is foundational to the concepts of individual sovereignty and the free market.

There must be some methodology to the way humans interact, and the most preferable is the one that mitigates the most risk.

Most of us are shitty plumbers. That's why we invented economic specialization, so the few of us who actually have expertise in plumbing can focus on plumbing instead of being dragged down by having to farm. Your argument is absurd once it get to the point of internalizing negative consequences; do we say everyone should snake their own drains just so the raw sewage is their fault, not someone else's? Are you really making this all about blame instead of about results?

Given the existence of economic specialization, it's silly to assume most people would self-govern. Instead, it's natural to assume that experts in the field would provide the service. That's the point, it is indeed a valuable service — if you respect your own property rights, you want rules against their violation enforced by the credible threat of retaliation sufficient to discourage said violation — and because the service is valuable it should be assumed that property owners who are not themselves experts would voluntarily pay the businessmen (and businesswomen) who are. Thus, there should be no need for government to involuntarily tax anyone — if they won't pay, simply don't provide services.

A righteous government has the full and continuous consent of the governed. However, by "governed" it should be understood to mean those whose property is being protected by that government, and not those who violate the right to property of those individuals.

Communism is the pipe dream of harmony under anarchy. Communists and socialists mistakenly blame capitalism for the consequences of monopolism. Capitalism is just the liberty of individuals to profit from selling whatever they produce. It's the market system that determines who benefits.

There are two kinds of capitalist market systems- free and captive.

When the law favors real (physical) property rights, it creates a free market in which competition and opportunity are maximized. There are no exclusive rights over the production of goods, the use of technology or the reproduction of art. Poverty and the disparity of wealth are low. Working people are mostly self-employed and financially independent. There is no top 1%.

When the law favors intellectual (intangible) property rights, it creates a captive market dominated by manufacturing and publishing monopolies. Competition and opportunity are minimized. Poverty and the disparity of wealth are high and working people are mostly employed, living on welfare, and/or homeless and living out of their cars.

Governments favor captive markets because monopolistic employers are the most efficient tax collectors.

Because i want to help save earth chan . how? if communism is implemented. it mean people are going to use public vehicles/mode of transportation, thus less carbon emission will be made. also we would pay more attention to our surroundings because we are commuting. kappa

The problem with all the starbucks iphone communists is that they believe under a communist regime that they will be an intellectual leader with wealth and not a cog working in a factory 18 hours a day for the state

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Manocean wrote:

The problem with all the starbucks iphone communists is that they believe under a communist regime that they will be an intellectual leader with wealth and not a cog working in a factory 18 hours a day for the state

nope, the problem is the people that think this is true and don't even want to look a little deeper at what communism is.

It wasn't so long ago that people worked an insane amount of time in factories under capitalism in extremely bad conditions (often life threatening) for a misery salary. It wasn't that long ago that capitalism used slaves. It got better, so could communism.

I want communism because of memes! :)

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faerwin wrote:

nope, the problem is the people that think this is true and don't even want to look a little deeper at what communism is.

It wasn't so long ago that people worked an insane amount of time in factories under capitalism in extremely bad conditions (often life threatening) for a misery salary. It wasn't that long ago that capitalism used slaves. It got better, so could communism.

Capitalism had (and still has) the potential to get better. Communism does not, or it would have. Maybe communism could work in a different universe, where instead of humans, they have some lifeform that are much different than humans, but all evidence shows that with human beings, communism fails.

Unless you were to exterminate millions of human beings in your country who would mess up communism, then everything would work perfectly....oh wait Russia, China and other countries already tried that, it did not work.

The only soft communist state was yougoslavia and they still killed thousands of non communists.
The only good thing about communist is they hate religions, at least the real ones. In a communist country no more of that.

any system in a corrupted country is gonna fail. Do you really think that capitalism would work in China or Russia? no. The rich would just do whatever they want and corrupt politicians and officials to gain a complete monopoly with the exception that the money would all go into their pockets instead of some going to the government.

Capitalism is even worse because even if you overthrow a corrupt government (either through elections or revolution), the assets belongs to individuals rather than the state and that can't be fixed. Communism at least has a much easier way to having a clean state.

And you are wrong, communism totally has the capacity to get better or worse, just like capitalism. Albeit I'd say capitalism mostly go to the worse part because it empower two things that are awful:

- Money as the most important thing
- Gives rights and power to corporations (corporations having rights that preceed human rights is fucked up)

Communism is supposed to work for the people rather than having people work for it.


Keep in mind that I am NOT defending the joke that was russian or chinese communism, those two were awful and killed millions of their own people through starvation and forced labor.


Also, look at Cuba, communism is working well over there. If it wasn't from the US embargo, it would be a prosperous country.

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faerwin wrote:

It wasn't so long ago that people worked an insane amount of time in factories under capitalism in extremely bad conditions (often life threatening) for a misery salary.

It was much different back then, this was the same for every single system on the planet at one point.

Today, you can agree to work in the worst conditions in the world if you choose to do so. That's the free market. You have a choice. If I didn't like my job I could leave it tomorrow because I am working under a mutually agreed upon contract. This is different than working under any Communism regime which has existed (or continues to exist)

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faerwin wrote:

It wasn't that long ago that capitalism used slaves.

Slavery is anti-capitalism. Where is the Wage Labor (One of the main tenets of Capitalism)?

Slavery isn't exclusive to one system, but there's a pattern in Communist countries:

like.... Communist China Labor Camps under Mao, Communist USSR Gulags, Albanian Communist Labor Camps, Communist Bulgaria Labor Camps, still active Communist North Korean Labor Camps, Still Active Chinese Labor Camps, Communist Cuban Labor Camps, Communist Czechoslovakian labor camps, Communist Romanian labor camps, Communist Cambodian labor camps, etc.

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faerwin wrote:

It got better, so could communism.

It's really quite shocking that even in 2018 we still see groups/people talking positively about one of two of the most horrendous, crushing ideologies we saw the realities of in the 20th century. It's as unsettling as watching someone argue about how good Nazism is "if you look deeper into it". No! these ideologies, we need to learn from, we need to keep them fresh in our memory, or we are doomed to repeat history.