Dear animal lovers.

Man oh man, I was wondering if that was gonna crop up. people really have strong feelings about this kind of stuff. This is a first world problem. people are very disconnected from where their food comes from the practices behind it etc. I talk a lot on reddit about this subject outside of PoE. I was a farmer until recently, not a giant factory farmer, more of a hobby farmer making things happen for my family and enjoying every moment of it.

When I sold I had 3 cows, 1 bull, 4 nannys (female goats), 12 chickens, 10 ducks, two turkeys, and 8 guinea hens, 2 pitbulls, and 4 barn cats (and one F you I'm a house cat). We owned 14 acres most of which was gardening/feed growing space. It was rough for a few years in the beginning but I really enjoyed the lifestyle, we rarely went to the grocery store for anything, mostly sugar and things I couldn't grow. People would think I was some kind of monster for raising and slaughtering my own animals, but our whole goal was to give our animals a nice long life, and a quick death. Their sacrifice kept our my family fed, and I traded time money and gave them a good home until they were nice and old. I ran the farm for 12 years, I will sincerely miss it (had to move to be closer to sick in-laws, such is life,(but hey, I have no responsibilities past the in-laws and no job right now so maybe I should stream PoE and go for 40/40))

People just don't have to be with animals anymore, so they get this skewed perception of animals. I grew up around animals, I can tell you they have personality, they are all individuals just like people. But they are also food. At the end of the day you can survive on beans and rice, but if you aren't putting in work to make that food then I don't think you can judge the people who do. Its like the people who think this way came from houses where there never was a day they had to hunt or fish for food. I would have starved literally cause my family ran a failing farm venture and no one thought to get a job off of the farm. of course when I grew up I decided to hobby farm cause I love animals. I felt like by taking animals out of the farming system I was giving them a chance at a better life, and doing more then telling every moron I know to eat beans instead of beef.

Beastiary is a great concept. These animals are hurting, suffering under the weight of thaumaturical corruption. We are ending their suffering and using the thaumatugy contained within them to forge new and powerful items. Maybe someday because of our efforts un-corrupted creatures will be able to spawn in wreaclast.

TLDR: those people don't know what they are talking about

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coldmetal0 wrote:

Beastiary is a great concept. These animals are hurting, suffering under the weight of thaumaturical corruption. We are ending their suffering and using the thaumatugy contained within them to forge new and powerful items. Maybe someday because of our efforts un-corrupted creatures will be able to spawn in wreaclast.

Hell, Tora gives a whole speech about how the growth cycle of Wraeclast is in a completely broken overdrive state that can only be explained by supernatural forces.

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coldmetal0 wrote:

TLDR: those people don't know what they are talking about

My favorite thing is when militant vegans tell you that drinking milk is "unnatural" because no other animals do it, but don't realize that humans are the only mammals who produce lactase enzyme after infancy. While it's not ubiquitous, lactase persistence is so valuable that it evolved in at least five separate places and times, each of which is associated with a distinctive mutant allele.

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coldmetal0 wrote:

People just don't have to be with animals anymore, so they get this skewed perception of animals. I grew up around animals, I can tell you they have personality, they are all individuals just like people.

Yea, and thats the problem :) The less personality an animal has (eg. fish, spider), the easier is too kill it and vice-versa. I understand what you are saying. I grew up with animals too and saw them killed for food (cows, chikens, turkeys..), but would have troubles doing it myself. I'll be the fist to admit these feelings are degenerate and in the most part a consequence of modernity (also hereditary, as my father is just the same as me - highly emphatic vs animals).

I mean, I'd rather slaughter waves of demons, criminals and mad cultists in a game, than monkeys, cats and dogs, that's all. Fauna & flora = boring enemy. Now, even you and the game's lore have to rationalize the killing of these animals - because they are "corrupted" or something. Which would indicate to me that a certain amount of distaste to sensless slaughter (above what you'd need for food), is default in every person.

But Bestiary is not like farming, more like poaching or organizing chicken fights. You imprison beasts for profit (can even trade them), not for immediate survival. And I can perfectly see how some people are turned off by this.

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morbo wrote:

Fighting fauna and flora is a boring premise already as it is. I'll admit that bestiary doesn't sound that attractive to me, partly because you deal with caging and sacrificing animals for profit. Yes, I hate Zoos. I'm a huge cat lover and hopefully there won't be many useful recipes involving felines. I already don't like killing lynxes in maps... :O

As a side note: no matter how badly Blizzard fucked up D3 (or will fuck up any sequels), there will always be one thing Diablo is better in: hordes of fucking hellspawn, that the player feels zero empathy toward! The collection of enemies you fight in PoE is rather boring in comparison, imo...

Can you explain to me how you're a cat lover and have problem killing lynxes in maps, yet you have zero problem killing... people?
Don't want to be mean, but do you really love cats more than people, to the point in which you actually have problem killing them in a video game?

I always find this mind boggling.

OP loves fish, that's why she throws around bait.

Save a deer, catch a dino.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Perq wrote:

Can you explain to me how you're a cat lover and have problem killing lynxes in maps, yet you have zero problem killing... people?

Simply because animals cannot be "evil", they just have instincts. Meanwhile people in the game world are evil - bandits want to rob you, psychos want to harm you, etc...

Would you kill toddlers and babies if the game allowed it, just because you can kill adult humans? It is just pixels? ... Outside of psycho/sociopaths all people would have a revulsion to such a thing.

Bestiary wont ruin the game for me or anything, but I'd rather play a bounty hunter, chasing after criminals, than roleplaying a poacher + Zoo manager. Its just not that fun.

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morbo wrote:

Would you kill toddlers and babies if the game allowed it, just because you can kill adult humans? It is just pixels? ...

Yes, because:
* They ARE only pixels, and I can distinguish between a game and real life
* In PoE things which we kill are either evil [cultists] or corrupted/warped[animals]

I have an idea for neew PoE expansion: Doryani's Cradle :P

I doubt I will play new league (lack of time, and for now I do not find it rewarding enough), but I have no problem to catch and sacrifice animals in a video game

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coldmetal0 wrote:

Man oh man, I was wondering if that was gonna crop up. people really have strong feelings about this kind of stuff. This is a first world problem. people are very disconnected from where their food comes from the practices behind it etc.

Yes, some (including I) do have feelings, and a lot of people are disconnected from their food (not me).

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coldmetal0 wrote:

People would think I was some kind of monster for raising and slaughtering my own animals,

Not me.

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coldmetal0 wrote:

but our whole goal was to give our animals a nice long life, and a quick death.

Which is admirable - you have to eat.

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coldmetal0 wrote:

People just don't have to be with animals anymore, so they get this skewed perception of animals. I grew up around animals, I can tell you they have personality, they are all individuals just like people. But they are also food.

And here lies the rub - do you really think that almost killing, then capturing, then tending (from the look if it badly), then slaughtering an animal is remotely what you described above?

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coldmetal0 wrote:

and doing more then telling every moron I know to eat beans instead of beef.

Good, my partner is vegetarian for a lotta reasons and I respect that. I'm not, and as one of the Agricultural teachers at school its my job to help the kids understand that the cows and pigs we have are both animals deserving of respect and good treatment and also are food (and are sold as such).

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coldmetal0 wrote:

Beastiary is a great concept.

It is - it has a shit implementation. From a character perspective, can you really see the ranger doing any of this? She got sent to Wraeclast for poaching - feeding her family. Not capturing, caging and sacrificing. And the beastiary is not limited to the corrupted animals.

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coldmetal0 wrote:

TLDR: those people don't know what they are talking about

I think we do, and I also think we have valid arguments for not liking the way this league seems to be structured. Simply adding the option for releasing an uncorrupted animal back into the wild once its essence is captured would make a world of difference. Not from a gameplay perspective, but from a player choice one.

And for the record - I don't kill the civilians in Oriath, I actually pay some attention.

My opinion.

Cheers,
<Matt>

As a vegan(non-SSF), that's reassuring, thank you. I was worried about Bestiary league missing the official vegan certified label.

PS: If anybody wants to join my guild <VEGAN> you can send me a PM. You must be a vegan(SSF or non-SSF). Animal inhabitation map mod is banned.

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